1)Pre Load at rest (2) Half Stroke (3) Shifted all the way out. ........................1..................2..................3................. 3 3/4 Black...107.0 lbs........252.8 lbs.......389.6 lbs........ 3 5/8 Black...101.8.............245.0.............381.2............. 3 1/2 Black....65.0..............222.4.............375.2............ 3 7/8 Gray.....88.8..............181.4.............269.0............. 4.00..Gray.....110.6.............210.8.............288.2............
The text below was taken from Mikes Pilot page, I put it here in case it gets deleted, read the entire thread here
Installed Clutch and it will not shift out all the way lacks 5/8 of an inch. Tried 12 to 15 weights with no change. Removed sand tires and put stock on and no change. Any sugestions ? Thought about trying a 3 1/2 inch spring. Clutch came with 3 5/8. It wont shift out because there is some sort of design problem with the HRD cover, I have 2 of his clutches and spent 2 full seasons trying everything Harold wanted me to try and they still would not shift out all the way, both clutches was short lived because it never shifted out all the way and the belt spent most of its time in one location wearing out the faces, the faces are the only part worn out the rest of the clutch is like new, I also had 2 covers fail (more here) www.pilotodyssey.com/~ho...hbroke.htm Big Tom also had a HRD cover fail. I installed the short spring and all the weights I could stuff into the pucks (14 I think) and the shortest 22" tires I own, I then ran it down a paved road 1-1/2 miles WOT and it still would not shift out, with the 3-3/4" spring and the stock Pilot tires using the old style power bloc clutch off my wifes Pilot it shifted out all the way, again his design is the problem. After the second over failed and twisting his arm he sent me a used ALT cover (old style) and now the clutch will shift out all the way, when I bought the second clutch I tried to get him to sell me the older style cover clutch, he assured me it would shift out all the way and didnt, I know of 4 other HRD clutches that are not shiting out all the way, THERE IS A PROBLEM! Harold is still in denile that his clutch has a problem, call him and talk to him, it is possable you do have another problem but I doubt it, he will tell you to use only the Honda belt, check your driven clutch then tell you your engine dont have enough torque to make it shift out, again soon as I installed the ALT cover ALL my problems went away. Harold needs to buy a Pilot and install one of his clutches and go testing himself to see it for himself, I know one guy hand carried his new clutch to HRD to show him it was not shifting out all the way and it did not seem to phase the guy, DunePilot your clutch shifting out all the way yet? If I were you I would remove the clutch holding bolt and washer and inspect the cover for cracks every 10-15 operating hours! Here is what your looking for. www.pilotodyssey.com/~ho...riven2.htm Let us know how you make out! Thanks for the info stay tuned for the rest of the story Ok.. we just got back from Little Sahara and it was packed. Our pilot performed well. Prior to the installing the clutch and torque pipe we had to get a run at buttercup now you can stop at the bottom and go over the top with power to spare. Clutch still not shifting out lacks 5/8 inch. Received some more springs to try, 1. Preload lbs at rest. 2. Half way through stroke 3. Shifted all the way out 3 3/4" Black 107.0 Lbs 252.8 Lbs 389.6 Lbs 3 5/8" Black 101.8 245.0 381.2 3 1/2" Black 65.0 222.4 375.2 3 7/8" Gray 88.8 181.4 269.0 4" Gray 110.6 210.8 288.2 Harold recommends that I start with the 4" spring which should give me the same or better stall rpm, as well as being lighter on the top end. So far he has been really good to work with. Ok... I removed the 3 5/8" spring that was only shifting to within 5/8" and installed the 4" spring with 15 weights per puck. Tested with paddle tires (22" with seven paddles per tire) and it shifted out to within 5/16" . Talked to Harold and he recommened that I try the 3 7/8" spring. Installed the spring and tested and it now is within 3/16" of being all the way out. It has a lot better top end and the bottom end still produces about eight feet of wheel spin. . . Our elevation is 1,389 feet above sea level. Our pilot is set up as follows Stock Engine and Carburetor with 145 Main Jet. K&N filter in stock air box. Torque pipe with long silencer. HRD power block clutch with 3 7/8" spring and 15 weights per puck. . Will give an update after next trip to LS. From what I have been told 15 weights is a lot for a stock engine. Atv racing said 13 max. It is not hurting bottom or top end performance with the 15. Can't wait give it a work out. I would guess about a 20% increase in top end with the mods and 10% on bottom with the way it is set up now. It put a smile on the wifes face after her test run at the house. Thanks for the interest will post more after next trip. I think that is the majority of the problem both ATVR and HRD told me the same thing with the weights, REAL bad advice if you ask me, I was told use the 3-3/4 black spring and 7-8 washers LOL was running around with my engine screaming and getting no where fast, I have drove other Pilots clutched like this and felt the same thing they are turning 1000 more RPM for nothing more than shortening the time before their next rebuild and going slower, I started adding weight and seeing a huge increase in performance, went to the 3-5/8 spring and saw even more, I was told by both I was going in the wrong direction but the way I see it if both my Pilot's are accelerating faster than 99% of all other Pilots and Odysseys using my settings I must be going in the right direction, I think the people giving the advice think they are going faster because the engine is making more noise (louder is faster thing) or because "more RPM = more power" Where/how did you get a 3-1/2" spring? after I went to the 3-5/8" spring I wanted to try a 3-1/2, Harold told me they dont make a 3-1/2" I asked Harold about different color springs because my buddy has a whole box of springs from his racing days, he told me to use the black springs only I asked for a chart that tells me the spring tension of the different springs he said a chart does not exsist, I am glad your having better luck I wasted 2 seasons, 2 clutches and about a dozen belts (about 1000.00 total) listening to Harold the self proclaimed clutch Xspurt! Just aske him "I have been clutching for 23 years" you think he would have learned something in that much time He even went as far as to tell me my engine did not have enough torque, my engine builder screwed it up when he did the porting yet my Pilot will leave 3' long black marks on pavement using brand new stock rear tires with 4 psi in them. Again the only way I could get his design clutch to shift out all the way was to do away with the rounded cover and install a ALT cover then I could use the last 5/8" of my clutch. I will be testing the 4" Gray spring in the future, I need a much faster upshift! Harold sent me the different springs to try. He also sent me a chart as follows. Tried to post it above but it ran together. (1)Pre Load at rest (2) Half Stroke (3) Shifted all the way out. ........................1..................2..................3................. 3 3/4 Black...107.0 lbs........252.8 lbs.......389.6 lbs........ 3 5/8 Black...101.8.............245.0.............381.2............. 3 1/2 Black....65.0..............222.4.............375.2............ 3 7/8 Gray.....88.8..............181.4.............269.0............. 4.00..Gray.....110.6.............210.8.............288.2............ I was worried about loosing the bottom end with the 3 7/8 inch spring @ 88.8 lbs, compared to what we started with 101.8. But as i said can not tell much difference. The lighter spring on top 269.0 compared to 381.2, I started with is a big difference. wish I could get a couple more weights in each slide just to see if it would shift out the other 3/16 inch. Could try a little lighter spring on top but want the belt to stay on. You are exactly right about the high RPM's with less weight. The more you take out of ours the slower we go and the higher we rev. It was Harolds idea to ship the additional springs to me and try. He has told me all along to add weight to get it to shiftout all the way. He said it should shift out to within 1/8 inch is all. That is why I stopped at 3/16.Who knows after the next trip it might be out all the way. Do you know how far the original stock clutches shift out ours was within 1/4 inch when I removed it. Also it would be interesting to know the pounds on the stock spring bottom, half' and full. Will have to do a little research in that area. The 3 3/4 black spring is 389.6 lbs on top and that would have sent me the wrong way I think. As for the color of the springs I have no clue as to one being right or wrong just know our PILOT loves the grey, and hope it will for a long time. Hi I got a chance to try the gray spring on my Pilot, I like it also but need to do more testing, right now I need to remove at least 3 weights in each block, lost a bunch of bottom end, it never bog the engine but lost a bunch of bottom end punch, wheel spin is more controllable now, the testing I did was in packed sand on flat trails. When I remove the washers I will give you a total on how many I am running, I forget how many I have in now so it would just be a guess :-) Sounds like Harold is starting to get past the denial that his clutch wont shif out all the way and that THEIR IS A PROBLEM since he sent you the extra springs to test, btw the MUTT charged me 20 bux for the gray spring, other springs I bought in the past were 10-13 bux, old Harold will NEVER see another nickel from me, he is not the ONLY power bloc dealer ! I will go out of my way to discourage people from buying from him in the future because after spending about 750 bux with him, countless long distance phone calls, shipping a cltuch back for him to inspect and wasting 2 years trying his ideas I would NEVER want someone else to go through the same thing..... Keep your eye on that cover it WILL crack and leave you walking, seen it 3 times so far it is just a matter or time... Thanks for your info.