andoh
This any help?

Finding the pistons will be the trick, we need to find pistons from another application that will work like snowmobiles or PWC need a catalog that list all the sizes and dimensions an engineering catalog would be the hot setup.

We need pistons from 82mm to 86mm that uses a 20mm wrist pin.

The other option is to have pistons made Afastcar already looked into this nobody seem to be interested, could have them made starting at 82.5mm

I sent in a inquiry to ART the people that make the pistons for Honda and most other OEM's to see about getting piston kits made much rather have a OEM cast piston like Honda used than crappy wiseco, this will probably require a large group purchase.

oops

Thanks for the data "H" I will see what I can come up with. I did a j peg of bore stroke and displacamnet. I arrowed up the 450 bore size you did and the 465 kit bore size with the pilot stock stroke.

I found a spacer plate I have for a Pilot jug in a box today. I have not a clue as too what I got it for, or when.Did you guys need me to measure it for this piston/head combo by chance?

Afastcar/"H" , Working on T for angle area. If I use 8000 rpm it puts you around .0036541 for T of the equation. Question #1 Cord width fo the new bore measured straight across and then paper plot and get new cord width number. Need to find mean time area for second part of the equation.
I can then compare to data already have for computation. If 8000 is the target max rpm is this over rev or straight out final drive rpm. Note show for ALT power block 7800 rpm using black spring and using 9 to 10 weights. Got any Blow down numbers. Using pilot data I show the new cord width to be around 52mm.
Next the Mean area for angle area. At 92.3 ATDC ( ex open) the mean area line degrees is 43.85 BBDC ( Before Bottom Dead Center)
From above pic ex close at 267.7 BTDC( Before Top Dead Center): 360-267.7=92.3 BTDC on compression and EX opens at 92.3 ATDC ( After Top Dead CEnter) down stroke. I took the 92.3 number and found mean line by: 180-92.3=87.7, then divided it by 2 and got 43.85 BBDC.
With the cord width I can plot the mm2 and using the rods lenght of 143.5 can calculate the mean area in mm2 of the port needed for angle area. Roughly plot come in around -100 mm2 for the mean line and puts the ex port around 1033 mm2 or 10.33CM2 using data on hand and converting bore into it.
Once I have more accurate cord number I can get closer. As far as angle area using noted numbers it comes in around .00008320. Way short for 8000. Need more T/area to get in within .00014. In simple languge need more duration on the exhuast port: raise the port to open sooner and close later. Discussion. If the exhaust was raised after it would efft the mean area by altering the mean line adding area. This is why the exact Cord width is needed. I went into detail and explained for other to follow.

Sorry out of room.

I went and factered in T to get within Target angle area based on noted mean area ( mm2) and it puts the Engine in at 6000 rpm. This tells me it will fall flat to quick even with retarded timing with High static compression on over rev. The retard timing still allows for burn rate of 60 degree and peak at 30 ATDC at full retard rpm.

Thought, If the skirt allows raising the cylinder a tad more befor altering ports changing the open time and thus duration increasing Mean Area by altering The mean line. It can be bump 500 to 600 rpm. If then the Area can be increaed 400 to 500 mm2 it should get us a good starting point.

Discussion: Did some quick cross refrencing and came up with Ex open at 85ATDC for a duration of 190 degrees and that brings us back inline with the stock pilot for T which is around .0039. This allows for more time area and bring the engie back into line for starters. If the mean cm2 comes in around 15 then move the duration to 190 it takes the Engine into an angle area of around 6.3 which should peak it out around 6500 and fall of at 7600. This based on .00014 to .00015. With some over rev and slight changes it should be able to taken into 7 range for 8000 rpm. I'll need to a T graph to see the effect on the power range and when it it will hit.

Couple pics of the hand notes for future refrence as well in note book for refrence. Thak you for allowing to play.

adnoh thanks for the info, I threw the 8000 RPM out their for what someone might want to use if racing I doubt for the most part they will want to rev more than that, a more realistic number would be 7600-7800 for normal use, with all the torque my 440 sled Engine makes I have it at about 7400-7600 its suppose to be 8700

Right now the actual width of the exhaust is 54.6 mm I don't see going any wider because I cant tell what the exact wall thickness is for the port tunnel I am going to show the cylinder to a friend of mine see if they have a wall thickness tester at work that can read the current thickness and map it out for me so I can tell if it can be made even wider without welding, that is cut off part of the cooling jacket then build up the base metal of the exhaust tunnel then weld the cooling jacket again. I know they have instruments they use to read wall thickness on piping hopefully it will fit into the exhaust port of the Pilot.


Any suggestions on the dome volume for the head, can we just use 49cc and adjust for the bore squish?

Again thanks

Hoser,

I can get a CR450 cylinder preaty cheap would you want one to check out the port work or is it a waist of money?

Probably a waste of money my guess is its the same basic port layout Honda used for years on other cylinders just scaled up a little much like the CR480 Nukem has.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8771

Hoser,
Any info on this build? Nick is busting my balls to come ride and I need an Engine/motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) for New Years?? Your the best and thank you!!

Engine remove from the wife's Pilot goal is to have your 450 Engine installed and running by Sunday, suppose to rain and storm here all Saturday and Sunday

Makes me sick all the pics in this thread that are missing or corrupt, will search for good ones and replace if I can.

I have some I can dig out and post as well. It peaked my interest.

forgot to ask you gona use that pipe for the build or you gona part with it.

I found some pics and replaced them if you can find any of the pics please do.

You talking about my torque pipe out of the wifes Pilot I was going to try this 450 setup using her torque pipe yes.

Can't wait to see how it runs

New Years? Glamis Town? Vroom Vrooms? ha ha.

Here some pics from his file

more

Update

Pulled the Engine out of the wifes Pilot and installed this 450 modified Engine, drained and flushed the gas tank, flushed the fuel filter (was clean) cleaned the carb (was clean) the as found jetting in the wifes carb is
slow jet 48
main jet 160
#6 slide
EEG needle on 4th groove from the top


Installed a 170 main jet (biggest I own) and put the clip on the 4th groove from the top.

For the hell if it I installed a stock Pilot head with a used head gasket 130 PSI
then installed a modified Pilot head 49cc and it was 145 PSI installed the Speedchaser head with a 47cc dome and its 160 PSI BINGO!

Removed the Speedchaser head and put the dome in the lathe, machined the OD of the head out to match the cylinder.

Cut the copper Pilot head gasket out to match the current bore size then annealed the gasket by heating it up until it was red hot then allowing it to cool, cleaned the gasket off with a 3M pad then rinsed with carb cleaner blew dry with compressed air then coated with the copper coat allowed to dry over night.

Installed the head torqued, still at 160 PSI.




Went and bought 3 fresh gallons of Amoco 93 octane mixed it up 32:1 with the Amsoil.

Started the Engine to heat cycle, 22 degrees outside, idle real high, this 39mm PWK came with a goofy screw in the place where the idle screw goes so cant adjust the idle down any, played with the air screw still idle high pulled needle and put it in the 5th groove from the top, helped fatten it up a little but not enough, pulled Pilot back in shop to cool down so can change to a bigger slow jet will try a 58. pull the choke to fatten up the mix and the idle goes down.

New longer studs were the ticket.

Hoserized

Ok pulled carb change the slow jet to a 58 if I was to do it again in this cold would have installed the 60 slow jet I have.

Left the needle on the last notch (fattest setting)

Heat cycled it total of 3 times then took for a short ride, few short WOT (Wide Open Throttle) burst no blubbering so I know the 170 is not too big.

About 2" snow on the ground so its a blast drove it until I got a smile frozen on my face trying to thaw it out now, its a blistering 15 global warming degrees out their!

Engine off battery volts is 13.1 running at idle 14.4 volts so I know the stator is putting out to the charging system too.

Another 15 minutes cool down I will take it for another short ride.

Looking good. Are you planning a west trip next year?

how much bigger is a cr 500 piston?