Hoser,

The Polaris Liberty engines have oil pumps that dedicate 2 oil lines for the mag and PTO bearings that deliver oil slowly. One would only need to power the oil pump and drill access holes. Polaris uses a banjo style, and barb style, one way fitting for the oil lines just above the bearings.

Now skidoo uses Isoflex grease on the outer bearing as it is always starved for oil in their engines. Maybe pack grease on the seal side of the bearing?

I can only assume the Pilot motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) uses a hole drilled in the top of the case and relys on oil from the transfer ports for oil runoff to oil the bearings. Does port and polish magnify this problem? At WOT (Wide Open Throttle) the mixture is moving too fast and not sticiking to the walls of the transfer ports. Not sure how to correct this maybe a windage tray to catch and drip more oil over the bearings - would be counter productive to port work tho.

Ak

EDIT:
Since its getting way off topic from Mikes Pilot Engine CSI I split this topic from Mikey Pilot Engine Poofkaboom (lockup) viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10183
We can continue to discuss options to supply more oil to the clutch side crank bearing.

Sorry for any confusion this creates.
hoser..

Hi
I assume the oil systems your talking about use a mechanical pump of some sort to pump the oil?

I have 3 to 4 of the mechanical driven skidoo pumps that were driven off the rotary valves I don't want the complications of trying to figure out a way to drive a mechanical pump, right now I am going to try a vacuum driven fuel pump.

I don't polish anything inside a Engine fact is when I am done I run a special tool I made over the surfaces to put a rough texture inside the whole cylinder I don't do much for the texture in the crank cases, I rough up the surface rather than polish the surface simply because of the thickness of the boundary layer on a rough surface is THINNER than the boundary layer on a smooth surface, you have a limited space inside a Engine so the THINNER the boundary layer the more flow you get.

Too many get confused and like to see nice shiny smooth polished parts, research boundary layer I read about a dozen SAE docs and a whole bunch of other tech stuff that explains it will I never post the info because it takes about 20 to 30 hrs to read and most you have to read 2 to 3 times to understand it, mainly I never post the info because most people have bling and polished on the brain and just cant purge it out of their brains so I would just be wasting my time trying to share the info, its fun watching them trying to jet temperamental polished engines and being slower than me

Where their is no SPACE CONSTRAINTS a smooth polished surface like on a airplane wing where you have MILES OF SPACE above and below the wing is better the boundary layer can be 3' thick and it cost you nothing, adding .040 thickness to the boundary layers inside you Engine is huge Always get a good laugh after seeing someone waste a day putting a pretty polish on Engine internals but pretty sells and pays huge psychological gains.

I have thought about drilling a passage and installing a grease zerk for the clutch side bearing and greasing with the Isoflex grease, just give it a fresh pump of grease after every 4 tanks of gas? or so? but I don't know enough about the grease to try it, if the grease is used in a unsealed environment like inside the Pilot Engine does it all wash out when the fuel or heat reaches the grease, will a chunk of grease get in the rings and gum them up, will a chunk of grease get on the plug and kill the spark, so many questions.

After my Pilot Engine killed its second clutch side bearing I asked around about installing a sealed both sides bearing on the clutch side, by time the seals wore out and the grease leaked out I figured their would be a nice build up of oil between the bearing and the clutch side seal to lube it, again too many unknowns.

Every Pilot Engine I rebuild I "hoserize the cases" I remove all the rough edges around the oil feed holes for the bearings I also enlarge the holes, bevel it really good I open up the area where the bearings and the seal and the oil feed hole all come together so their is less restriction than came from the factory.

All that being said maybe its a simple as going to 20:1 or 18:1 with the oil ratio?

I would rather have a oil pump feeding extra oil right to the deep groove of the bearing, dispensing the oil between the clutch side seal and the bearing itself.

Your thoughts? Especially on a sealed bearing or a grease zerk and greasing every once and a while.

What do you think of the fuel pump with a metering valve/Tee? Kind of like the FL250 fuel system but with a valve with low flow. This would pump a set amount to the bearing and return the extra oil to the tank.

Another option would be the thingy valve a nurse will adjust the IV drip system. This would give you a adjustable valve in the size you need. Green house's use a drip system as well. I also seen single pots with drip valve as well. Or gravity feed with a drip valve with some kind of switch in the line.

Just my thoughts. Slap me in the back of the head if you want. I am far from an Engine guy.

Really have no idea, you also have to remember your working with and against the pressure pulses in the crank case, the fuel pump is driven off these pusles you might be fighting these pulses forcing the oil in since the pump gets its signal to pump at the same time it will all be expermental.

Hopefully the pump will build enough pressure to build more pressure than in the crank case, if the Engine had 2 cylinders I could just hook to the opposite cylinder so one was negative each time the other was building positive pulse to drive the fuel pump.

I will have to make a glass jar to connect to the crank case where the oil is going to be pumped and hook my hoser oilier up to that glass jar and let it pump oil into the jar then go for a ride and see how much its pumping into the jar then install a restriction in the line like a carb jet to meter the flow to the bearing, should not take much remember this idea is to supplement oil to the bearing, will have to monitor the spark plug real close and whats coming out the tail pipe.

Hoser,

On My son's Skidoo Engine I pump grease once a season - about 6 to 8 rides approx 700 - 800 miles. I only do this on the mag side as that is the one I have had go out and I only do a pump or two - slight resistance and not pump throught bearing cage into Engine. This is NOT skidoo approved of course - I take out stator and pump into bolt hole using a seringe, I think Bazz showed a pic some time ago.

I would think a diafram fuel pump would not work as what is powering the pump is also trying to stop the pump (as you stated in the previous post) - cancelling each other out - although more power is given to the pump, larger pulse hose and power of diafram.

Polaris pumps have 4 lines comming off, two high flow lines and two low flow. I routed the high flow lines back to the resivior and put oil pump to full on. I set up Fl800 for Bazz when he wanted to go pre-Mix to relive thumb fatigue (I should have done this Years ago). IMO Polaris is the only manufacturer that has basically got the main bearings reliable, not sure why other have not followed suit, maybe patent rights? One would only have to mount a 12 volt motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) to the Polaris pump (skidoo is too fast, no slow flow side of the pump) make a resivior and put a oiling hole between the seal and bearing.

What I would do: First try the Grease, I don't see how it could hurt to pack Isoflex grease between the seal and the clutch bearing, your losing bearings anyway. Obviously Isoflex can take two stroke oil getting on it, Skidoo packs it on the outer bearings but the inner bearing get oil from the pulsing of the Engine. Does some get through? I would say so as I keep refilling the void on the mag side.

A sealed Bearing? Seems like a lot of pressure and heat for the grease in side to withstand, I see the grease melting and leaking out.

Ak

Akpilot never thought about running the skidoo oil pump off a 12v m0tor I have a old 12v battery drill I could use for parts, get it to run control by a relay and a timer every 30 seconds turn on and run for 5 seconds or something, powered by the battery.

Will play with the vacuum fuel pump first, I think the surface are of the diaphragm will over power the pulse pressure in the crank case, only need a drop of oil every once and a while.

Thanks for the info and help.

Hoser,

If you need a Polaris pump, I might be able to drum one up for you. The Skidoo will be way too fast of a pump. Also the fittings for the oil lines are a one way and that might help the pump, although they might also be too restictive for the fuel pump. They are designed so the oil does not bleed down while sitting.

Ak

single point automatic lubricator

http://www.dispensinglink.com/Dispense%20Valves.htm

http://www.permausa.com/ oil

http://www.skf.com/files/189251.pdf

http://www.mapro.skf.com/products/lbr_lage.htm

http://www.memolub.com/


http://www.agslube.com/

http://www.bijurdelimon.com/us/usa/lubrication-system-types/single-point.html

http://www.digilube.com/electromd.htm


speed

Thanks for the links that brings back memories one of the first jobs they gave me when I started out as a maintenance apprentice in a factory was to go through the whole plant refilling all the automatic lubricators and greasing bearings checking belts, after that I learned how to replace fluorescent light bulbs and splice leather belts .

Looks like the auto lubricators has advanced quite a bit since then the ones I was refilling was from I am guessing the 40's and 50's and I bet some were even older.

Would love to install the auto grease setup with the Isoflex grease just too many unknown's surrounding using grease I would hate to create even more problems.

Here is some pics of the spare carb/intake for my spare ROTAX 440 Pilot Engine, its one I picked up complete off evilbay many years ago was going to set it up on the spare Engine so it was ready to run so if I ever blew the current Engine could just drop in the spare ready to run, it never happen, just as easy to remove the 4 bolts holding the assembly on the Engine and put it on the spare Engine, its good for spare parts anyways

Anyways you can see it has the oil pump still installed and the oil lines still hooked up it even still has the cable hooked to the throttle to vary the output of oil depending on the Engine RPM, I only assume it gives more oil as the RPMs increase?

Here is the back side the gear is driven off the same shaft as the water pump and the rotary valve on this Engine.

Close up of where they dump the oil into the Engine they just dump into the intake tract this is upstream of the rotary valve plate.

Here is a oil pump off of another manifold this might even be the one I removed from the manifold I am using on my 440 Pilot, the plastic gear can be removed and a pulley installed to run as a belt drive? OR a coupler made and installed so you could drive it with a 12v DC M0TOR, I was thinking a old 12v DC M0TOR removed from a old battery drill controlled by a relay and some sort of a controlling device, timer or switch.

Another option and one I will test first is using a fuel pump off a sled be fast, easy, compact, simple to hook this up and use I need to rig it up and see if it will pump oil then see if it will pump oil against the crank case pressure gotta rig up some hoses fittings and glass jars first.

If it wont pump straight injector oil I will dilute the injector oil by mixing gas and injector oil 50/50 and see if it will pump.

Here is a picture of Mikes case, the blue arrows show where the oil is collected then funneled down to the bearing and seal, this case has already been hoserized the passage enlarged the openings beveled and blended into the cases.

The red arrow is where I would drill a hole and JB weld in a fitting to hook a hose too so more oil could be added.

Inside the same case where the bearing goes the red arrow points to where the hole would be drilled and the oil deposited just above the crank seal and the bearing, I picture the oil running down and some making contact with the crankshaft itself then being slung off the crank onto the outer walls of that pocket between the bearing and the seal and then running down into the bearing, just assuming that will happen I have no idea what the actual flow is inside the Engine when running for all I know it will be sucked up the hole and through the transfers and burned up and never reach the bearing?

The new bearings you are putting in are a C3 fit. Do you know if the original bearings are a C3 fit or not? If not just that alone may solve some of the problem. The C3 bearing has more forgiveness for heat expansion than a bearing that is a different spec. All high rpm electric motors have a C3 bearing for that reason.

Yeah stock is C3 also we have talked in the past about going to a C4