Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login  * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email   
It is currently Mon May 19, 2025 7:14 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 341
Location: North San Diego
I looked and looked, but none of the attached graphics in the threads I pulled show up for me

Does anyone have any FL350 port maps on hand?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
I should have in a file. I will post them tonight.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22617
Location: Chicago
adnoh wrote:
I should have in a file. I will post them tonight.


Please do we had some here at one time but they were lost....
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7687


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 2243
I would love to share all these full race cylinders, 350s, 400cc 350s, and the 4 ported atc250r jugs. I have never personally done it, but have read how to before. This would be a great tech thing. I would not be "infringing" on someone's work and get sued again???? Lol. I do some minor changes of my own, usually a lot more internal work than window port changes.

Gary


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
here is what I have. I will dig out all the info if need be. I will also pot it over at the link.

Nuke em,by all means do some work if you have the time, it fun to do.


Attachments:
350 port layouts.pdf [278.81 KiB]
Downloaded 125 times
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
pics


Attachments:
Rotation of Redskinman port layout.jpg
Rotation of Redskinman port layout.jpg [ 79.09 KiB | Viewed 2454 times ]
Turbo port lay out.jpg
Turbo port lay out.jpg [ 60.33 KiB | Viewed 2454 times ]
porting advise in steps.jpg
porting advise in steps.jpg [ 153.25 KiB | Viewed 2454 times ]
msv comparison.jpg
msv comparison.jpg [ 46.57 KiB | Viewed 2454 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
another pdf for reading


Attachments:
Porting Terminology.pdf [62.74 KiB]
Downloaded 113 times
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
some more stuff from that file


Attachments:
sunblock 350 head squish and combustion chamber.jpg
sunblock 350 head squish and combustion chamber.jpg [ 48.54 KiB | Viewed 2451 times ]
Jim 327 arts 80.25 at .004.jpg
Jim 327 arts 80.25 at .004.jpg [ 46.42 KiB | Viewed 2451 times ]
fl350_cylinder_stock_headsquish angle 21 15.jpg
fl350_cylinder_stock_headsquish angle 21 15.jpg [ 24.75 KiB | Viewed 2451 times ]
fl350_cylinder_and_piston angles.jpg
fl350_cylinder_and_piston angles.jpg [ 23.66 KiB | Viewed 2451 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
more


Attachments:
burn rate in degrees.JPG
burn rate in degrees.JPG [ 46.49 KiB | Viewed 2450 times ]
Arts 80.5.jpg
Arts 80.5.jpg [ 35.33 KiB | Viewed 2450 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
more

FL350 PISTON AND RING PRE POST RECALL NUMBERS

350 piston specs recall and pre recall


Attachments:
350 piston specs recall and pre recall.pdf [302.53 KiB]
Downloaded 123 times
FL350 PISTON AND RING PRE POST RECALL NUMBERS.pdf [626.95 KiB]
Downloaded 279 times
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 pm
Posts: 624
Location: mustang,ok
You are a wizard adnoh. Nice stuff.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 9:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
I wish I could take credit for it all. It was what I collected that was posted by other members. I keep files on stuff. That is one reason this board is so helpful to myself and others. Every one has something to contribute in hopes we all learn a thing or two so we can go play.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 2243
Heres a pic of the Leckich 420CC 350 exhaust ports(I did help from the original size), and the last is a pic of the Rennie Awana 4th Gen port(non bridged). I didnt have any pictures on this computer of any of Bob Briggs or Bob Victorinos race jugs that I have.

I will get some maps made up. Almost done cleaning up my garage.

Gary


Attachments:
exhaust port2.JPG
exhaust port2.JPG [ 47.33 KiB | Viewed 2390 times ]
420cylinder2_216.jpg
420cylinder2_216.jpg [ 37.31 KiB | Viewed 2390 times ]
Rennie Awana.jpg
Rennie Awana.jpg [ 37.97 KiB | Viewed 2390 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:01 pm
Posts: 341
Location: North San Diego
Adnoh, quick question on your experience with exhaust port widths

Your notes on the PDF/stencil show a bore*.95, but the 2-stroke tuning notes you included indicate a bore*.66 ~ .70 max

Is the difference because we are using bridged exhaust ports?

Thanks,


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 6:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
I will do my best to answer your question. When altering the exhaust or any port in that matter there a lot to consider. The port map is a great starting point to do some calculations before altering anything. The map must (and I stress must) be used in conjunction with the Engine parameters and components. I know that is not your question but please bare with me.
Also when looking at the marked up map its just a guess on the actual numbers as I was only working off a picture and scaling it to fit.

Short version: .95 bridge AROUND THE WALL verses across the port as measure with a caliper down the cylinder.

When you do a port map it tracks the wall and the ports in a diameter. Then when you remove the paper from the cylinder it can laid flat and and easier measured or transferred to graph paper for calculation. You also must maintain a certain value between the exhaust port and the main transfer port to reduce charge loss or short cycling. Future more its important to know the cranks position for angle area mean line to which the port is most effective. By this I mean do not widen it below the mean line as it will not aid but hinder the charge density. Never reduce the bridge area as it only make the bridge expand at a greater rate. If you look the line across the top of the transfers as it runs through the exhaust you can see the shortest distance between the ports. If you need more area and not time you can taper above this distance and taper back adding area. If you need time and area which most need then as you taper you also raise and increase bridge taper as well. Be darn sure you need time before you do it or you will have a time bomb on your hands. As you add time you increase the mean line in degree of stroke which reduces area if port width is left alone. You only do this if the angular area is to high for you (T).

You pipe plays a part in this as well If you to hot or too cold to short to long (LT), it will effect the charge density via the stufer charge upon EX port closure. Not only do we concern ourselves with the intake charge but the exhaust gases them selves If you add time the port opens sooner and the HOT gases start to flow sooner removing heat from the crown sooner. If you look a the burn rate example you will see combustion is done why before port opening so a few degrees will only help. That leads us to blow down or the degrees between EXO and TRO. If the EXO is sooner than the blow down is degree is greater. This is also an advantage for most engines. Again go to map and the time area. If you need more time area than you can raise them as well as long as you watch you main transfer to exhaust distance. Since were talking ody the shorter stroke and rod ratio must also be taken into account. This is why a head design for the ody is not a simple one size fits all with the pre and post cylinders/heads. As soon as over bore a 78.5 your time area is out of wack on the exhaust. Any port that has a taper to it shrinks with an increase in bore and since the angular area calculations are based on bore the port time area decreases. The other effect is (CR)compression ratio and (MSV) max squish velocity. You compression ratio calculation is based off of cylinder/head/gasket volume at EXO or your (TCR)trapped volume aka (CCR) corrected compression ration. You MSV is based off of the Engine and head numbers, bore area ratio of the head/squish angle/squish clearance/RPM/CCR/bore/rod lenght/EXO. If you over bore with no (T) change on the EX then you have an increase in both CCR and MSV, if you restore EX and CCR and leave bore area ratio alone you have an increase in MSV. If you raise the ex only then you you have a possablility of increase in the rpm which also increases MSV and reduction in angular area.

Break time. motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )). ok got your laugh in.

Now that we have most likly increased the CCR and MSV and a reduction in T and angular area the Engine has been retarded in port timing by way of over bore and yet we try to rev it higher, Oh no. The increase in MSV and CCR increases heat and the longer the greater heat is on the piston and reduce angular area greater chances of failure. When we look at the MSV we look at MS, MJ and the angle before TDC (Top Dead Center). To high in MS,to great in MJ and to soon in angle lead to preignition and detonation. By the way don't forget about the pipe. More heat speeds up the pipes tune for a given LT. That mean the return wave is getting back sooner but we restored the ex port not raised it, good or bad depends on (T) and angular area.

So now you see why not only area but time area is also important in the angular area calculation if you leave all above deck alone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3636
Location: Wichita ks
I did a short pdf of the rambling to help make since of what I was referring to. Hope it helps now you can see why nukems port looks like it does.


Attachments:
consol post.pdf [255.51 KiB]
Downloaded 195 times
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: FL 350 port maps?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 11:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 2243
I started making a few port maps last night after work while Elitespecialkid was pulling the chucklenuts at aftershot motorspurts jug from Feds Odyssey...I am going to do my "nuke em" stuff to the ports n transfers, I don't think the ports have been cleaned up(too sharp edged). Not enough clearance(.003) on the bore so going to open that up too.

The maps I started was a stock 350 jug original 78.50 bore, Leckich 420cc 88.50 race jug, and a 4 gen 86.60mm Rennie Awana race jug(new,needs to be bored to 87.05 for first 87.00 piston). I have not mic'd/measured anything yet, just basic map. I have several others that need done too.


Attachments:
006.jpg
006.jpg [ 31.43 KiB | Viewed 2321 times ]
007.jpg
007.jpg [ 19.71 KiB | Viewed 2321 times ]
008.jpg
008.jpg [ 23.88 KiB | Viewed 2321 times ]
009.jpg
009.jpg [ 37.97 KiB | Viewed 2321 times ]
010.jpg
010.jpg [ 49.71 KiB | Viewed 2321 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], MassOdy


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group