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 Post subject: Jetting woes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Ok Hoser.I am at a impass currently.I have a 35 Kiehin PWK:stock needle(dgk)on middle clip,50 slow jet(68 stock),155 main(160 stock)stock throttle valve(6mm).I have adjusted the idle circuit to a smooth idle fully warm, throttle response is crisp to 1/4 throttle, no flat spots or bogs at all.It is here where I am at an impass-I have tryed to move the clip up on the needle to the second than first grooves thereby making it leaner-but the Engine just bogs down and won't go over 1/2 to 3/4 throttle,the EGT is reading about a solid 1050 but the carb wont pull through the range to full throttle, it also sounds like the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is popping back through the carb (like the timing on a 8 cylinder motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) with bad timing marks)if you get my drift.The Engine timing is right on, I checked it.Do you think this scenario requires me to go to a needle like a DEG which is longer and thinner than a DGK?I am not skilled in the area of determining if I have A LEAN BOG OR A RICH BOG,THE Engine WILL NOT PULL THROUGH the range to full throttle at all.I pulled the plug after trying the needle set at the first groove or the leanest and is was fuel soaked-this puzzles me because I am moving the needle to lean it out, not richen the circuit.Any help greatly apprec, thanks again.I have a 94c comet which has been grounded(gray wire to neg terminal)the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is fresh 78.5 mm with Boyseen reeds, dual air inletswith a uni 2 stage filter.I have had 2 strokes that had a rich bog whereas the carb would bog down from 3/4 to full but it would pull through the range after a minute, this is not doing that at all,the Engine will not go to 3/4 -full throttle at all-it just seems to be a big flat spot, nothing.Is the needle to fat in taper for the 155 main and thus causing the transition from 3/4 to full to not pull through?


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 Post subject: bogging
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:59 pm
Posts: 58
Had a similiar problem and one of two things fixed it. Don't know which one cause I done both at the same time, but here they are.
On my pilot, when you went past 1/2 throttle, the machine would seem to shut down and the lights on the wheel would flicker. Was running an old battery that required pull starting quite often, so I put on a new.
Also replaced slide needle and holder in carb. Needle and seat were badly worn allowing way too much fuel into the Engine. Tuning the idle circuit put the screw 3turns out and it was still fat. Mid was fat in the lower, but got better as it opened up. Would eventually clean out at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) but I guess it could get bad enough that it would flood to the point that it couldn't pull out of.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22516
Location: Chicago
We talking a Pilot here?

You blubber at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) too?

I have never run the 35mm PWK on a Pilot but have run the stock carb bored to a
33.5 mm, just guessing here but the main might be to big, you try going smaller
on the main jet to see what that does, 155 could be ok but it sounds big to me .

There are ways to tell if your lean or too rich, get the Engine up to full temp then
block off one of the inlets does it run worse, pull the plug is it darker, if so then
your too rich,, you also can ride it around to get a feel for things then pull the
choke to see what affect it has, a 2 cycle Engine will usually run real crisp and
have great throttle responce if your lean, it will miss or 4 stroke if your too rich.

Good jetting info here http://pilotodyssey.com/jetting1.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Ok, went down from 155 to a 142-reset the needle (DGK) to 3rd groove,slow jet 50-idles well, throttle is crisp with no bogs, 1/2 throttle to 3/4 it just bogs down, the plug is fuel soaked.I didnt pull the choke.I changed the needle out to a DEG with the 155 main, it ran if not as bad worse with alot of black wet carbon coming from exhaust.My question is now could the reeds be bad or does this seem to be a carb issue?should I change out the needle for a thinner diameter?The motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is brand new as are the reeds.I tryed to change the needle to a lean setting, no help.The motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) does though just bog down on 3/4 +,it wouldn't do that before going to the 142.Is it possible that I need to go down lower?The stock main is a 160-am I going the wrong way?When I ran the 160 is was way to rich, wouldn't run, idle, ran horrible, so I changed the internals thinking it was to rich on the idle circuit and jetting from the bottm up is the way to go. EGT DOESNT GO OVER 780 UNDER LOAD, DROPS IMMED AFTER LETTING OFF THE THROTTLE as well.Any help is apprec, thanks.


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 Post subject: Jetting
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:11 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Lewiston New York
I wouldn't play with the slide needle at all.....going from one needle to the next won't show a great deal of change if your main jetting is way off. It sounds to me like you may have another problem and are dumping fuel. I would look closely at the needle and seat, a small piece of debris will prevent the needle from seating and cause a fuel problem. I would also make sure the choke is closing and opening as it should. If it will help, I can send you a good carb that ran great on a 350 and you can give it a try.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
The carb I am currently trying to work with is a 35PWK(not an AIRSTYRKER)-is this carb used exclusively for a gravity feed tank style fuel system or can it be adapted to be used with a stock fuel system like 1 found on the 350's.The carb no matter what I do is fouling the plug, it seems to be flooded all the time, regardless of needle, jet, clip position, etc.Any help is greatly apprec.Can the slide itself be dropped to accomendate a stock fuel delivery system?I have a 3.0 throttle valve which is leaner and smaller in length than the stock 6.0 is this an option by chance?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: CT
Start your Engine, get in and ready to drive it. Shut the fuel petcock off and drive it. If your bogg goes away and you have good power on the top end your carb is rich. If it is worse then you are lean. It will not run long like this obviosley but will give you a quick diagnosis as to whether or not it is to rich. Read the jetting info that is on this site, it is very informative (on the homepage). Make sure your carb is getting adequate fuel. If you have pin holes in your fuel pick up you could be going from a rich to a lean condition. Put clear fuel lines on it and watch for ANY air bubbles. they would indicate an air leak on the fuel supply. Basically at idle your carb bowl is filled and as you need fuel for 3/4 to full throttle it can't pull the fuel demand and it will run lean on the top end. Try shutting off your fuel first and see what it is actually doing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:52 am
Posts: 144
Location: northern california
King Kx wrote:
Start your Engine, get in and ready to drive it. Shut the fuel petcock off and drive it. If your bogg goes away and you have good power on the top end your carb is rich. If it is worse then you are lean. It will not run long like this obviosley but will give you a quick diagnosis as to whether or not it is to rich. Read the jetting info that is on this site, it is very informative (on the homepage). Make sure your carb is getting adequate fuel. If you have pin holes in your fuel pick up you could be going from a rich to a lean condition. Put clear fuel lines on it and watch for ANY air bubbles. they would indicate an air leak on the fuel supply. Basically at idle your carb bowl is filled and as you need fuel for 3/4 to full throttle it can't pull the fuel demand and it will run lean on the top end. Try shutting off your fuel first and see what it is actually doing.

i did exactly what you said, get in and shut off the fuel, and it took a couple seconds and then it was perfectly fine..so i guess its too rich? how do i make it more lean??
thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
After much troubleshooting, the problem was in fact the grounding of the "change switch" on the rear of the trans, after locating the problem, the carb woes have been solved.My only regret is that I swapped out the 35 PWK for the stock carb and jetted it, I really don't feel like going to the 35 after all this--thanks for the help-it seems dumb I know but I am new to these--ROOKIE.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 pm
Posts: 1037
Location: CT
i did exactly what you said, get in and shut off the fuel, and it took a couple seconds and then it was perfectly fine..so i guess its too rich? how do i make it more lean??
thanks[/quote]

Go down numerically on your main jet until the Engine pulls to the top of its RPM power band. From there you will need to fine tune the clip on the needle. and recheck the plug burn/EGT temps.


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