So this us the second time happening in this lifetime of 4 hours in the clock.

When I got this thing, it barely ran so I replaced the top end, replaced the carb, and replaced the coil in that order. I changed out the coil because it would run rough and stall. I robbed a replacement coil from my Taiwanese scooter which looked exactly the same and it ran great for 4 hours. Then it started running like crap again.

If I touched thd spark plug boot with one finger the Engine would stall so I replaced the boot with cutting back the wire. The bad boot measured open and bad with my fluke meter. The brand new replacement ngk boot measured 5k. So I thought it was fixed.

With the new boot and cut back ignition wire the Engine still stalls out if I touch the boot with one finger.

I ran a temporary ground to the head and made no difference in any case thd Engine always stalls.

Also while it does run, it will not hold rpm and has absolutely no pulling power as the Engine won't revving past 1/2 throttle due to major ignition cut outs.

Did you check all of your switches??
I wonder if the key switch or kill switch is bad or has a bad wire connection.

I just went through the switches and they are making good contact. I followed the manual and everything seems to be wired correctly - IE gets ground when this and that switch is flipped and has good voltage here and there. I went back to the very first coil which this FL350 came with as I didn't throw it out and the Engine won't start at all. On this replacement coil it will start but stalls when touched. I took another coil off another scooter and it won't start at all with that one either. So, 2 could won't start, a 3rd coil starts but stalls when touched. The two coils that won't start the FL350 will start on my scooter just fine.

I checked the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) and the regulator per the manual and it is as though my meter cannot get anything close to the manual's readings on 90% of the terminals.

Referencing ground, I get 2vAC on the pulse generator's Bu/Y or G/W wire. I get 45vAC from the alternator's Bl/R wire. I can't test the yellows. I think the stator is OK.

Voltage drop when cranking is 11.6vDC. The Engine starts better when pull started. Electric starts only some of the time.

When testing for spark while electric cranking and the plug removed but touching ground, spark is intermittent.

try checking connections on your harnesses. shake them while you have the machine running if you can, it might be something grounding out somewhere from vibration. Maybe swap the coil wires? I don't know if that will make a difference. My buddy had a 2010 zx10 and he would only get headlights. no taillights or fuel pump or gages. It was a burned harness plug under the seat. Don't know how it happened but that was the fix. And make sure the grounds have good contact also.clean them with a wirebrush if you have to. just a little peace of mind.

That's weird. Does someone live near you will another fl350??
If so then try a complete swap of the coil, CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), charging regulator unit.
It's only two bolts and the three plugs.

Not that I know of.

I think I might have solved the issue but I'll know more next dirt trip. I pulled the side cover and found my exciter coil was quite far from the flywheel magnet. I moved it in to 0.010" and also cleaned up the yucky oil residue with some contact cleaner around the whole stator. It looks like I may have the balancer oil over flow concern, plus some water made it's way into the area.


I've got good spark now on two coils, and the third is the one which still doesn't like to be touched. I don't think spark has been this strong in the past month or more. So I hope this fixed the problem.

I found the suggestion here: http://www.odysseypilot.com/index.php/t ... #msg111528

If you are having intermittent or weak spark when the starter is cranked, you starter is probably full of oil. When your starter fills with oil, it draws excess power form the ignition system and she wont start or it becomes extremely hard to start.

I also checked my spark just like you did with the plug out of the head and cranking it and she would get spark. Just not hot enough to fire the Engine with the plug installed.

I had this happen to my Ody and was scratching my head for a couple of days. Once I replaced the starter she fired up with just a bump of the starter button.

I highly suggest pulling the starter and seeing how full of oil it is.

Rand

Randman - I know the first time I had my starter off it was full of oil. I didn't take it off this time as although it may be part of the issue - I also could not get this Engine to run right with the pull start due to bad/intermittent spark. If I can get it to run right with spark then I'll go back and troubleshoot electric starting problems.

Now, I was looking at page 14-0 of the service manual which explains the ignition system - and none of the components are referencing +12vDC battery voltage - which tells/shows me the systems are likely separate from each other but both reference similar ground. The ignition system does not run off of 12vDC rather everything runs from the Stator's output - specifically the Exciter Coil (Powers the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition)) and the Pulse Generator (Signal for spark/timing). In total - 6 grounds make up the ignition system. The only parts I can tell which use +12v beyond the starter are the lights, regulator, and alternator (which is NOT part of the ignition system). 15-0 image shows the lighting side of the electronics which do not cross over to the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), and 16-0 shows the starting system which again do not cross over. All common ground though.

The only thing I can think of as to why the starter would interfere with ignition spark is of course overloaded from oil content stealing signal, connection, and power from ground as GROUND is the only common points between the lighting and ignition systems. Starters are a HUGE power draw and if there is any resistance from the starter to ground (or even to positive) then power can be drawn from the Stator / CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) / Ignition through Ground alone.

Alas, I'm going to try making a grounding kit which will wire to each of the main/major grounding points. I'll use some 10GA wire to inter-connect each of the following -
1. Battery negative terminal
2. Bottom/Front of Engine
3. Top of the electronics
4. Grounding point as close to or on the Starter
5. Try to find a grounding point on the head (like maybe to one of the 10mm intake bolts)

*I believe there is also a ground under the cover at the stator. This one probably needs to be cleaned up and verified as good by itself.

I'll then also use some 6GA wire to run as follows-
1. Connection point between ground at starter to bottom front Engine ground
2. I'll verify / replace as necessary the 6GA primary ground wire from the battery to the Starter/front Engine ground.

I also found a pretty nasty connection on the +12vDC starter relay. After fixing that one yesterday the starter actually spun the Engine over faster.

Have you pulled the pull start cover off and inspected how much oil has been flung around in that area?

Checked the ignition pickup next to the flywheel to see if any dirt or crap has gotten in there?

Rand

There wasn't much oil there but definitely some. It was oily and a wet mess with a bit of water mix. Somehow some water got in there and I'm guessing either through the pull start or through an un-sealed gasket. I went ahead and cleaned it up for testing purposes but the water problem needs to be addressed soon also.

There was some few small flecks of metal stuck on the pickup magnet - nothing obvious other than the gap. I lightly cleaned and sanded the pickup coil to make it's facing surface shiny and new. I then moved the pickup to .010" from the flywheel which I hope will create a better ignition signal.


So there are a couple issues going on under the covers but I got spark to return so I'm happy atm - and glad it might not be the stator/CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition)/rectifier.

Naa that wasn't the problem.

I also tried running some temporary grounds here and there to no success. With the plug installed, spark is so weak that it barely runs except with the only coil that when touched causes the Engine to stall.

I checked the charging circuit and the battery sees +13.2vDC when revved so I know the stator alternator and rectifier are OK.

Just to be sure, I unplugged the rectifier and the alternator/stator 4-prong connector and the Engine ran the same (Crappy).


SO now I'm back to square one, where I guess I need to try a new coil? Then what? CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition)? Stator???

Damn that's an odd one.
Like I said before I would try to find someone near me who has an fl350 and plug in the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) and coil from that machine. That would narrow it down to the stator or flywheel. Since you have some spark I would say the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) is good and they just don't fail. If they do fail then you would have no spark in my opinion. Are you sure it is a spark issue and not a timing issue ??

Hey I just read this thread again and I want you to try something for me.
Remove the wire from the starter and tape up the end so it don't short out.
Then pull start it. I wonder if your starter brushes are shot and shorting a bit to ground.
Randman was the first to hit on this as a possibility. Just a thought.

I'll try that to tonight.

Can you get me vAC readings on the stator black wire and blue wire? Reference ground. I'm getting 50vac on the black wire and 2vAC on the blue wire.

Electric cranking readings.

That is strange, good idea on the shorted brushes thing.

I think I have a stator in the shop I can take ohm readings on if needed.

The relay should be disengaging the starter +12 wire but I'll try it. I'll also try removing the battery all together as well. The stator I believe is outputting correct voltage on the exciter coil at about 60v, but then the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) seems to be jumping all around as it's output to the coil is not stable enough to read and jumps all over with low readings between 35~50v. shouldn't it be outputting 250v? So is it the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition)?

Of the vehicles I have had which start running like crispy crap with ignition problems its almost always been from a failing stator. I've had a stator go in my jet ski, street bike, and a scooter and its not a fun time troubleshooting.

Again this comes down to swapping out one part at a time until you find the problem.
Without some spare parts around I think it is gona be a pain.

This is Not the same problem as you having but may Help

When I first got my Oddy. I had issues starting when cold very poor spark.

It came down to 3 problems

1/ original old coil @ 30 + years old replaced made a little difference Genuine Honda
2/ I serviced to starter IE rebuilt starter and fitted and again helped but I also got a New one and Fitted Aftermarket
and did the balancer breather mod
3/ But the best thing I ever did buy far was to buy a Hi Quality Battery DON'T BUY A CHEAP ONE

My problem It was a combo of things

? have you tried removed the electric starter and tape up the ends so they can not short out
and pull start your oddy and run it, (((( OPPS just re read canadian oddy ))))) sorry

All the info I have read over the years it is very rare for the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) / staters to fail

I worked for a Stihl and Honda power equipment dealership for 8 years and it was amazing how many
coils had failed. Main cause is Moisture getting in around the terminals, and the HT Lead

Starting and under load is were a coils fails, the coils need to produce more voltage that is required to
just run. You need to replace it with the same coil Assy. as all coils are different.
Also have you battery checked it might look good but how old is it. DON'T BUY A CHEAP ONE





just my 3cents worth

A

Maybe I should actually mention this, but I ran the ody through a couple of puddles the first day it started acting up. At first it was 'clearing' out but then finally it just continued to run like crappity crap.

I'm going to grab a brand spanking new coil and try it out again.

a couple of puddles, I would be also checking all electrical plug connector pull apart and clean dry and spray WD INOX

Have you stripped the carby or dropped the drain plug off the carby bowl and checked for water


Back to the Coil

You can take the old coil to the bike shop and ask them to put more sparks back in """"LOL just having a lend of you""""""

At the mower shop on many occasions we were ask to put new sparks back in the coil "Some people"

Its a bit like the """"Press Any Key"""" on a computer Keyboard THERE isn't ONE
was in the computer industry for 15 years retail and commercial, for every phone call I had
over that time I would be a very rich bloke.

A

I've ordered a replacement coil and will post back if the problem still exists.

Thank you

The replacement coil is in, and it appears to have much more consistent spark in testing while electric cranking. I'll know by Thursday if the replacement coil really fixed the issue.

OK I don't think I have any issue with the coils. This new coil doesn't want to make the Engine run at all. Still, the coil that when touched can run the Engine but very crapy at best.

Can someone please post me the following AC voltage readings?

Blue & Green problem while 2-prong plug is disconnected: 2vAC
Black wire disconnected referencing ground: 55vAC
Black wire connected (to CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) harness) referencing ground: 33vAC

Any voltage on Black wire going to your coil?
Any voltage on the high-tension wire going to the spark plug?

Thank you

Did you do the starter wire thing like suggested ??
What was the result ??

Don't get me wrong I really appreciate the help and have tried dozens of things. I WILL TRY THIS, but I honestly do not see how the starter is involved seeing that the starter relay/solenoid normally keeps the starter motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) disengaged. This means the positive lead on the starter isn't connected to anything while not cranking electrically.

I get all the symptoms with just using the pull start.

Im really coming to think that either my CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) or Stator is going out.