Showa has auto responded but has just said they will be in contact with me soon. Nothing yet.
Weather still crap here (rain). I think the local mountains just got a small shot of fresh snow - FFFFFFFF.
Next week my brother in Vancouver again all week so no riding.
Man so far this year it sucks. Only been out once and they ran like crap. One fuel pump shot on my brothers machine and a plugged fuel filter on mine, and now rain and no riding next week - FFFFF.

Well I got a reply from Showa today. Here it is:

Dear Sirs,
We don't answer your request.
We regret to inform you that we will not be able to provide detailed information from Showa to consumers, since we are one of OEM manufacture of Assemblers.
And we deliver the spare parts only to Assembler, so please contact to Assembler for further information.
So, please contact to Assembler "HONDA " for further information.


With best regards,

SHOWA

宛先
sales_adm@showa1.co.jp

cc

件名
[0853] From the inquiry form

In other words I am screwed when trying to find any info on these rear shocks.
I don't think Honda would even have that info anymore and I don't see why they would even know if the rear shocks are gas filled or not. Wouldn't a manufacturer just farm it out to a shock outfit ??
They would just give the shock guys the required info like corner weight, motion ratio blah blah, and then say send us ten thousand of em.
So it looks like the ride report will be our only real test.
Weather very very nice here today but we can't go and my brother will be gone all next week.
Stay tuned.

I'm sure you would never get a Honda dealer rebuilding these shocks, they would consider them replacement items.
you could however try to contact some of the shock guys like shock therapy, they may have some information for you.

If it were a gas charged shock. And it not having any kind of fill port. It would've had to been assembled inside a pressurized box or some sort correct? I personally believe its unlikely they were gas charged. Now by adding a piston and a charge port I think you could do wonders for the shock. I have a set I'm going to rebuild and add reservoirs to. When I get around to it.

That's exactly my point too.
But others here are non believers on the gas thing.
They point out that when they push the rod in, it comes back out, so they believe that the shocks are gas charged. But like I said earlier in this post, it's "gassed up" on it's own during repeated cycles. Also there is a link to a site earlier in this post that explains why the oil and gas MUST be separated for performance reasons, yet these shocks are oil filled, single tube, no piston or bladder separation.

Well this might get the juices flowing

I was going through my bits and bobs this arvo as I was having a brain wave

and I found THIS

see pic

NOTE: There is oil in the shock. There is no pressure our vacuum whilst moving the shaft in or out of the hole

oh I only have one of this type.

yeoddy

I still am a firm believer that the rear Showa shocks are gas charged. I have pulled the springs of an old pair of shocks from my Ody and even in a cool 70 degrees ambient temperature on shocks that hadn't been used in years, they still had pressure on them and the piston would fully extend the shock.

Rand

Adrian(wyee) I too have one like that with the added/mod'd fill-fitting.
I'll post up a pic of it later to compare,mine was orig from some ex Victorian or SA racers I think?

I agree with Rand on his GAS? I have several shocks,and the good ones you can feel/hear the push return even with the coils on.

Well I still have to disagree with you guys.
I filled a shock with the wrong amount of oil after rebuild and when I pushed it in there was a dead spot where the shock "fell" through when it got to the area with no oil. This only confirms what was said in that link that I posted previous in this thread. Also those shocks in the above picture with the added fill port, unless there is a piston separating the oil and gas, ur done. There will be a dead spot. The oil and gas must be separated. If that weren't true then why do the shock outfits have pistons or bladders in their remotes ?? May be they do it so their product looks cool ?? May be so they can charge you more money for the product ??

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/the- ... -explained
This part was taken from the link I posted in this thread about single tube shocks:

Now imagine your powerful liter-bike is equipped with the factory single tube shock. You've now passed the apex and you've increased the throttle opening to 90%. The front wheel is still in contact with the ground, but just barely. Your rear tire runs over a bump in the track, the shock compresses further and everything is fine. Then, as the bump falls away, the suspension must reverse travel to ensure the tire maintains it's contact with the ground. The spring supplies the force needed to push everything back toward the ground and the shock keeps things under control. Except that in this particular scenario, bubbles (really voids) have formed on the suction side of the piston when the shock is suddenly compressed to deal with the bump. Now that it is reversing travel, the bubbles immediately collapse and the full force of the spring is temporarily allowed to pass through the shock undamped. The tire is overloaded and traction very suddenly goes away. This is exactly what you don't want your shock to do.
Cavitation can be countered with an external reservoir that contains oil, pressurized gas and a piston or bag to keep them separate, but as more pressure is added, 'stiction' can start to become an issue.

I have to vote for the no gas in those. I have experience rebuilding nitrogen charged Fox and ACT shocks in Arctic Cat sleds. What causes the failure is the oil mixes with the nitrogen creating bubbles and no separation of the gas and fluid. This reduces the viscosity causing reduced dampening and what we call blown shock. There would be a floating piston or a remote that keep the gas and fluid separated as well as a charging port. You also had to be extremely careful not to have any bubbles in the fluid before inserting the piston and recharging.

These oddy shocks work just like the old sled shocks. Oil flows through the valve. No gas. Spring controls compression and rebound. Any pressure inside is due to temp rising after it was sealed. Boyle's Law I think?

1) Shocks are gas filled.
There are 2 types of gas shocks, sort of gas light and full on gas.

The full on gas shocks have a floating piston that separates the gas from the oil, and a shredder valve to get the gas in
These shocks are a little easier to assemble as in they can be hand assembled.
But they have more parts = more cost.
The gas pressurizes the oil and reduces the potential of the oil cavitating as it passes threw the piston and the valves.
Thus the shock can handle higher temperatures - sort of like the pressure cap on your radiator.

The gas light shocks have a lower pressure and no floating piston.
The shock must be of the single tube construction.
The gas still pushes on the oil and pressurizes the oil.
This improves the cavitation situation some and it helps the valve performance some.
But with out a floating piston to separate the oil and gas there is some gas absorption in to the oil.
The gas is put in to the shock with a needle of sorts.
After the shock is assembled and sealed the needle is slipped along the shock rod and the gas is injected.
This requires some specialized equipment usually only found in a manufacturing plant.

2) Canadian oddy started with a shock with 3 drops of oil in it.
His rebuild is way better than what he started with.
Would adding the N2 gas bring it up to show room fresh? Sure.
But stock is no were near having Works shocks so it rebuilt is pretty good for the cost.

That's my 2 yen worth.

Thanks Lee, I knew I wasn't crazy!

Rand

Thanks Lee for your 2 bobs worth mate.
Rand your still crazy tho!
Can'tOdy,shocking news bro!

Thanks lee.
I hate the taste of crow.
We still haven't had a chance to take the machines out, so no ride report yet. Family things getting in the way.

Well we went for a ride today -- sort of.
They are doing a run of the river project at Hunter Creek so we checked in at office about 2km up the hill. They were blasting and logging so we decided to head back down. They couldn't stop us legally but I am not that brave. So we took a pass. But the good part is a short ride report on the rebuilt stock rear shocks. See pic below of my brothers report.

We went for a ride today up Sowaqua valley and both shocks leaked. My brother was very happy with them but by the time we got to the truck they were bottoming out. It's possible I damaged the seals during install by running them over the threaded section of the rod. I got another set rebuilt and will install and report back.

I know this is a really old thread now but I want to update it.
The rebuild above was not very successful. Sometimes we would get several rides out of the shock before it started to leak again.
Therefore in 2019 I made some homemade seals out of o-rings (see pics). These too were not very successful and similar results to the Honda rebuild kit above.
Yesterday July 28/20 I tried again but with another seal (see pics). I will post results in the near future, but right now I just have to much on my plate. It's also why I have not been on the site for a while.
CO

continued

Update:
I have to call it a success.
The new seals seem to be working as they're not leaking. They have been on a very rough ride up to Eureka mine. It's damn near vertical to 5500' and very rocky in places. Muddy in another spot. Have been to Sowaqua valley as well. If they do eventually leak then I will post.
CO