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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Well, here we go!

Everyone who followed my 5 link rear suspension build should have some idea of how I try to do things. I like to think things through, research and execute.. At the end of my rear build I promised a front suspension build, here it is. I know many people have converted their buggies from the factory J arm setups by using "over the counter" parts. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, nothing. As I've said...over and over, I like to build stuff.

I asked my self what the biggest challenge would be in doing this build. The number one thing I kept coming up with, was the new challenge that presents itself with the steering mechanism, after the a arm sub-frame is built for the front. The Next 2 items I came up with are: the width of the finished assembly, and the often times awkward height in the front.

I had several goals in mind when I started hacking and cutting:

-If I could use an available OEM component, use it
-Fabricate what I couldn't buy
-Optimism to my taste the stance of the buggy
-Optimism the travel of the front suspension.
-Minimize the weight of the front end.
-Optimism the steering and handling.

There, all of that should be do able.... Well, at least that's what I'm hoping for. In order to avoid creating anyone of the 3 major challenges that could result, here is the build plan:

Remove part of the front frame so that the tie rod pinch point is gone all together. Redesign the front frame to facilitate longer A Arms, Longer travel and increase ground clearance. Extend the wheel base from the factory: 60" (give or take..) to 65".
Use Fox Air Shocks so that I have matching shocks at all 4 corners. Attempt to maintain the factory foot tub in one piece.
The following front suspension attributes would be targeted at the following:
Caster: 8 degrees to start built in
Camber: Static 1 degree with a camber gain of 7 degrees through full bump
Rake: Built in 8 degrees of rake
Ackerman: Optimism-ed at isometric neutral (no hyper or hypo adjustments)
Attempt to design a fast ratio rack steering system that works..
Shocks: 8.5" travel fox air
Bump steer must be as close to 0 as possible
Scrub Radius: Targeting around 1" More discussion of this later on......

I know there are other parameters and issues to discuss, lets start with what I listed though.

Here's a pic to remind everyone what it looked like to start.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
I will go ahead and add a few more pics of how things started off:
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Playing with the dimensions
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Jumping right in
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Once the bottom front part of the frame was out of the way, work could move forward. The factory shock brackets were removed and the frame smoothed where things were cut off. My basic plan, was to replicate the Pilot front frame section. I can site no reason the fundamental frame structure the Pilot posses is not a great platform to build apon.

The goal, recreate the pilot front frame section, on my oddy. Retain the overall dimensions while grafting to the 350.
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The hardened steel these pins are made of is harder then Chinese math!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Let me throw a couple more pics up for tonight.
1 1/8" x 0.065 SS inserts
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I made a jig so I had my reference points
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And then I started to replicate the Pilot front frame section.
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Inward/downward/ and then up and away!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
Really nice. The hanging jig/support is an idea worth stealing. Impressive.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:33 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Rhode Island
Awesome! :-) I like what I see


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:58 pm
Posts: 2319
Location: near NJ rider
"The hardened steel these pins are made of is harder then Chinese math!"

LOL!

Looks awesome!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Thanks!, I have lots more to share...But can someone have Hoser nix the crazy poster person terrorizing the board!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
I continued on with bending, notching and fitting up all the pieces needed to replicate the Pilot front frame section.
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I added more reference point pieces.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
A couple more pics to feed the curious.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Here's a couple more pics to help round out everyone's vision of the oddy that wants to be a Pilot..LOL. Seriously, I choose the Pilot infrastructure because it works. The built in rake, the outward cant of the upper arms which facilitates suspension movement. It's brilliant..
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Assume, read through your specs. can not wait for the rest. very nice work. If read correctly 06 trx


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Yes, 2006. Since this build isn't constrained by the trx frame or other suspension components, I choose to use 2006. I realize 2005/2004 are the spindles of choice for quads...I have plans depending on how things ultimately go with the 1st ride ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Next, a cross bar that doubles as one of the steering column mounts.
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then I welded those pieces up
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Still a whole bunch more..


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
looks good. puts mines to shame lol


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Ok, at this point I was curious to see how things would look, in the bigger picture. The front frame section was designed to work with pilot arms. The arm in the picture is a Pilot 2+/1+. I am making my own arms, however the arm in the Pic should give a good indication of how things will look.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:33 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Rhode Island
Wow this is coming out great. I have a few questions. I can see the pilots in the back that I assume you are working from for your measurements, when you cut up the Fl350 frame, how close were you able to duplicate the pilot frame. What are you hoping to achieve for front wheel span? When you did the LT rear, did the width of the rear wheel span change at all, if so how wide is it now? Cant' wait to see how you make the A-arms!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
I was able to duplicate the Pilot dimensions accurately. The front overall with is 62" outside to outside tire. The rear with is 64" outside to outside. You will see the I changed some things slightly (a arm mounts, angles on the arms I made) in order to maximize the suspension.

The Pilot arms I used for mocking things up, were only used to keep a strong orientation of components. The arms I made, I am very happy with. Stay tuned more good stuff to come.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Well, at this point, I was liking the mock up so much I went for the whole kit and caboodle.. I started adding the mounting points. I had to do some recalculations etc, but in the end, I am happy with the result.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
It looks like you have a nice shop with all the goodies.
Miller welder (industrial type), big azz lathe, press, sander, and a hand band saw mounted vertically to the bench so you can cut small pieces.
Missing: cutting torch and I don't see what kind of pipe bender you got :-) .
I also see a sand blasted oddy frame -- what's that gona be ??


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Hey CO...

I have 2 shops at my place...have to seperate tools as they don't all fit in one shop. Torches in other building. Bender is air over hydraulic JD2 model 3...sheer, brake, other stuff in other building. The grey frame is the Pilot Im building for me...Have a ton of ideas. Wife says I don't understand boundries...that's a good thing right?

All of my tools Ive worked hard for. Nothing has been given to me. I knew what I wanted and I bought each piece. Some took years to buy, others days...But Im thankful every day that Ive been given the ability to use them and more over...the skills to make money to buy them :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
methodical wrote:
Hey CO...

All of my tools Ive worked hard for. Nothing has been given to me. I knew what I wanted and I bought each piece. Some took years to buy, others days...But Im thankful every day that Ive been given the ability to use them and more over...the skills to make money to buy them :)


Yup -- nobody gave me anything either. Worked for all of it and bought it with after tax dollars.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
Ha...Awesome! Cheers to the working guys!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 am
Posts: 420
Location: Pennsylvania
After determining the placement of the upper mounting tabs, I installed the mock up arms and ran through some cycling to measure and ensure my calculations were accurate. I did need to tweek some things as it's a little difficult to nail everything perfectly the a computer model does. But it all seems like it should be worth it...
The Buggy seems to appear wider then it is, I do love the aggressive stance. Next I'll move on to the fabbing of my arms. Then the steering.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
methodical wrote:
Well, at this point, I was liking the mock up so much I went for the whole kit and caboodle.. I started adding the mounting points. I had to do some recalculations etc, but in the end, I am happy with the result.
Attachment:
20161022_190414.jpg


When you changed the mount points for the A arms did you move them in any?


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