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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
You will have to be careful not to over tighten the bolts so you do not distort the rubber. Make sure you use lock washers. Perhaps the internal and external type rather than the split type.

Maybe a crush spacer/sleeve in the holes in the rubber intake.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
rmesser wrote:
You will have to be careful not to over tighten the bolts so you do not distort the rubber. Make sure you use lock washers. Perhaps the internal and external type rather than the split type.

Maybe a crush spacer/sleeve in the holes in the rubber intake.


All good suggestions thx.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Just removed a piece of that rubber that I put into the Avgas/oil mix. It has been 24hrs now.
Happy to report that there was NO degradation of the material. Two pieces still left in the jar. Will remove them in about a week or so to check for degradation, but this first test seems to tell a lot.
Also on a side note here, this rubber is tough as hell. When trying to remove the intakes from the mold I use a large screwdriver. You can't puncture this stuff, it's tough. The elongation and tear resistance is awesome.
I realize this is hillbilly type testing but it is good enough for me as a back yard hacknwhacker.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well I have made a few parts now so I think I will let it rest for a while. If you look at the pic below you can still see some inclusions in the Engine mounts. It seems to me that when I build these I will have to rotate the metal insert around a couple of times to let any trapped air bubbles escape. At least that's what I think is happening. The intakes look good and I still may make a mold for the stock one. The reason is that I think I can get my 38 to squeeze into it since the rubber is flexible. For now I am going to move on to another project. I have many. Want to build a unit to attach to any semi auto weapon that turns it into a Gatling gun WITHOUT modifying the gun. Also want to build a few more guerilla guns so that I can bury them in the bush when we go riding, that way you only get caught with ammo. Also need to rebuild the death machine (the one that broke my back),repair the shocks on my brothers machine and install one of the new intakes I built on my machine. I love this laid off from work stuff. Man I could get a lot built if I was retired but I almost need help LOL. Not sure if we are going to the world series of poker in Las Vegas this year but we did talk about it. Damn shitty dollar.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
a proper mold release would probably be better that vaseline, and if your worried about air bubbles, just build a small vacuum chamber to put them in right after you pour it..it will suck all the bubbles out....other than that looks great..


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well I know that I said I wasn't going to make a stock intake mold but I did. The reason is that I want to see if my 38 will fit into the stock manifold since the rubber is more flexible than the stock rubber. My feeling is that the stock units got hard after 30yrs. Also wanted to check to see if I could make a better Engine mount. Just poured it a few minutes ago. Need to wait until tomorrow to pull them.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 1779
Location: Ma
Single guy... Cold long winter up north, between jobs. Why mold at all? Make blocks and wittle away. :shock: :-)
Looking very good indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
go oddy wrote:
Single guy... Cold long winter up north, between jobs. Why mold at all? Make blocks and wittle away. :shock: :-)
Looking very good indeed.


That pretty much sums it up :-) .
Hey I just thought of something -- that's usually not good -- I think that I remember someone saying something about the eyelets in the shocks. Don't remember the thread. If your eyelets in the shocks are worn out you can make a new sleeve and pour a new eye. Just a thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well I just pulled the stock intake molds. They look awesome to me. In the pic you can see that the intakes require a small amount of trimming with scissors, but they look good. On a side note I did mention earlier that this rubber is very tough and hard to puncture. Well I did poke a hole in one of them when I was removing it from the mold. I was getting real rammy with the screwdriver and it went through (one with the over size end for the after market carb). The stock units have a ridge that fits into the groove on the stock carb to hold it in place. I may have to die grinder this off to get it to seat properly on my TM38.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
If you can poke a hole in these with a screw driver are you sure they will hold up to the vibration of a 2 stroke FL350 Engine?

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Randman wrote:
If you can poke a hole in these with a screw driver are you sure they will hold up to the vibration of a 2 stroke FL350 Engine?

Rand


Trust me, I really had to work at it to poke that hole in it. It's a large screwdriver and I was working on it. I feel confident they will hold up. We are going to find out this summer aren't we ??


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Have decided to use rmesser's idea and use a crush spacer/sleeve in the holes in the rubber intake.
I cut them from a piece of metal brake line. It will allow for 50% crush. Not sure yet but I don't think this stuff compresses well, it's tough. I tried to squeeze it with my fingers and it don't compress much. May be with bolts and the added power associated with that it may compress. Also have decided to go with the larger modified intake because the hole is larger and will allow the Engine to breathe. I will still try to see if the TM38 fits into the stock units.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well the new intake is installed.
Not sure what to think. The TM38 will fit into the stock size intake I made, but it tries to "spit it out" which is why I went with the larger opening intake. After installation I did notice that it is very flexible. Only when I mounted the bracket for the air filter did everything seem to firm up. As I see it now there is lots of isolation for the carb. All I can think of is that the original Honda intakes were made of a much harder durometer. When I had this carb mounted with the all aluminum intake and a radiator hose it was very stiff. A radiator hose has webbing in the rubber which is why it is so firm, even though it is the same durometer as the stuff I used to make these intakes. The only real test will be next spring when we get out for our first ride. Lots of snow in the hills here so I don't see us getting out until June for any of the high rides, and even then I think the roads will be badly damaged from the run off.
On a side note here, without question in my opinion this stuff is good for making the Engine mounts. So if I failed on the intakes then at least the Engine mounts are good. Time will tell.
What I really need is an accurate shore A reading on the stock Honda intake rubber.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
CA - I think you have done a great job. I'm a little concerned that when the rubber gets oily it will move around more when under vibration and heat. I'm especially concerned with the area that bolts between the Engine and the plate. If I was you I would keep a close eye on it the first test run, which I'm sure is your plan. I have to say again how impressed I am with your molding skills. Like you said - Time will tell. How about some more details on your gun projects? I'm not a fan of those type of hose clamps. They work great on a car, I prefer the Honda type of bands.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
I will give you credit for thinking out of the box and not casting the aluminum mount however..... you are going to have an issue with the distortion of the rubber mounted against the cylinder and warping of the aluminum plate you are using to mount it. The reason I say this is that I have personally broken an intake manifold by using too thick of a gasket between the cylinder and the manifold. When torquing the manifold down to 6 foot pounds, the aluminum part of the intake manifold simply snapped.

Maybe I'm wrong with the use of the crush tubes you are using. Lets hope so.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Randman wrote:
I will give you credit for thinking out of the box and not casting the aluminum mount however..... you are going to have an issue with the distortion of the rubber mounted against the cylinder and warping of the aluminum plate you are using to mount it. The reason I say this is that I have personally broken an intake manifold by using too thick of a gasket between the cylinder and the manifold. When torquing the manifold down to 6 foot pounds, the aluminum part of the intake manifold simply snapped.

Maybe I'm wrong with the use of the crush tubes you are using. Lets hope so.

Rand


First off thanks for the compliment.
The aluminum mounting plate was cut from a piece of 3/16" solid plate. That's strong. The oddy stuff is cast aluminum garbage. Cast snaps real easy. They do it that way to save money. The crush tubes were a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
rmesser wrote:
CA - I think you have done a great job. I'm a little concerned that when the rubber gets oily it will move around more when under vibration and heat. I'm especially concerned with the area that bolts between the Engine and the plate. If I was you I would keep a close eye on it the first test run, which I'm sure is your plan. I have to say again how impressed I am with your molding skills. Like you said - Time will tell. How about some more details on your gun projects? I'm not a fan of those type of hose clamps. They work great on a car, I prefer the Honda type of bands.


Lets take these one at a time:
1) I'm a little concerned that when the rubber gets oily
That's a possibility but I did silicone it to the reed cage and this rubber is gripy. If is slips on the carb end I have an idea for it.
2) I'm especially concerned with the area that bolts between the Engine and the plate
Why ?? I silicone it.
3) I'm not a fan of those type of hose clamps
I am. They work well in all the years I have been using them and for all the various stuff I deal with. The only thing I have found to be an issue is when you re-use them. Many times they are way over tightened and then the worm damages the band. Now it won't hold.
4) How about some more details on your gun projects?
Below are some pics of what I call a guerilla gun. You can make it for less than twenty bucks. It's a 12 gauge slam fire and it is made with two pieces of pipe and a 2x4 board. It has a laser sight that you get at the dollar store. You make these and put them in a sewer pipe and bury it in the bush somewhere. Then you don't have to pack a gun around with you all the time. With regards to the full auto conversion, I don't really want to comment yet. It's a very very very simple concept and if you think about it and are mechanically inclined you can figure it out. It uses an 9v electric-motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )). Not sure if I can find a motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) strong enough for the purpose though.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
This is where I got the idea from :-)
The most awesome aircraft and gun combo in the world -- bar none

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33teK7L4DM4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq6m7mpfc5A


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:36 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Wilmington NC
Yo CO - really like the bang stick and the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) mounts look good too! If they hold up to your testing regimen, I could use a few. Maybe you want to churn out some pilot intakes?
Nice to see your keeping yourself productive up there in the great white north. Keep up the good work, sir!


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well it has been a week now since I tested the rubber in the Avgas/oil mix.
I removed a piece from the jar and the rubber passes the test. There was no degradation of the material. I see no reason at this point to continue. As far as I am concerned this test is over.
This whole thing was just a proof of concept anyways. I will not be installing the Engine mounts because I don't feel like tearing my machine apart just to install them for a "test". I know they will pass. As for the intakes, I feel they will work also. When I first installed the intake I did not have the air cleaner hooked up at that point, and the carb seemed to flop around a lot. When I completed the installation everything firmed up just as it should. The first ride of the year will be the real test but I am positive it will pass.
Confidence is high in this project at this time. So that will be it for any entries in this post for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1430
Location: Norco, CA
off topic, what premix are you using? I use about 50:1 golden spectral, it turns the blue Av gas green, if I have any doubt that it has premix, it is easy to tell.
just an FYI


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Went for our first ride of the year and got to the snow level. The homemade intake works perfectly. Both machines ran like factory :-) .


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 Post subject: Re: Mold making
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
LEE should know the durometer of the rubber mounts you might have to email or PM him to gain his attention :-)


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