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 Post subject: Slow progress movements
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:39 am
Posts: 64
So I just got the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) running and all fluids are good in Engine and tranny. When I pop gear into drive or reverse oddy moves very hard like pushing or pulling buggy about a foot at time. Could be a brake issue as my front handle doesn't move but Canadian oddy told to also check u joints. Current ones look pretty rough and rusted, I don't know anything about u joints, so I will post some pics later. Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
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Location: Carson City NV
The Ody shouldn't move at all when placed into gear..... even when the brakes are NOT applied. This has nothing to do with your U joints.

Your idle speed is too high. The idle should be so low that the Ody almost dies but not quite. A low idle will also eliminate the grinding going into gear.

Rand


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Ok my bad rand, it moves when I give it gas, not just when I put it in gear. Don't know all the correct verbage.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Jack the machine up and see if you can turn the wheels by hand. That will tell you if the brakes are dragging hard.
If the brake handles don't move then it's probably your master cylinder. The cables on the brake handles will most likely be ok but you can check them by removing the pin for the levers on the master cylinder. Then see if the handle moves.
Yes it will be slow progress. Rebuilding one of these is not a 5 minute project. The learning curve will be steep and sometimes very expensive.


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File comment: Here are the part numbers of the kits you need for master cylinder. Still available from Honda
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Is there a guide to rebuilding the master cyclinder or in the service manual?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
fuesselfc wrote:
Is there a guide to rebuilding the master cyclinder or in the service manual?


Not sure.
In section 12-9 in the manual it shows a picture. These are very basic units. Just remove the snap ring and pull out the bits you see in the picture. Then clean it all up nice and install the new parts with lube. Lay out a nice clean white rag and lay stuff out in order as you take it apart. Put it back together the same way. Not rocket science. Once it is all back together you will have to bleed the air out of the system. This can be a real pain in the azz on an FL350. The master cylinders don't move much fluid so it becomes a chore to bleed the system. Everyone has problems so you won't be alone. Always make sure you can get maximum stroke on the levers as this will help. Everything (including the manual adjustment on each wheel) must be adjusted according to the book to get max stroke.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:02 pm 
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Well I got brakes adjusted according to manual, stopped them up where wheel won't move, then unlocked them 3 clicks, wheel rolls with little friction. Opened up the bleed valve and squeezed front brake handle and no fluid came out. So I concluded the master cyclinder may need to be rebuilt. Rear brake handle moves while squeezing and rebounds to regular position. Front brake handle doesn't move and the master cylinder lever does not seem to move for the front brakes. Well then I don't know exactly how to take the brakes cables out of the steering handle or the notch that goes to connections on cylinder. Any help there?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
fuesselfc wrote:
Well I got brakes adjusted according to manual, stopped them up where wheel won't move, then unlocked them 3 clicks, wheel rolls with little friction. Opened up the bleed valve and squeezed front brake handle and no fluid came out. So I concluded the master cyclinder may need to be rebuilt. Rear brake handle moves while squeezing and rebounds to regular position. Front brake handle doesn't move and the master cylinder lever does not seem to move for the front brakes. Well then I don't know exactly how to take the brakes cables out of the steering handle or the notch that goes to connections on cylinder. Any help there?


You see that square headed pin that holds the arms in ?? Remove the cotter pin at the bottom and remove the pin. Both arms will now fall out. At this point squeeze the front brake handle again to confirm that the cable is not rusted and bound up. If the handle squeezes in then it is obvious the master cylinder needs to be rebuilt.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:41 pm 
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If the cable is rusted and bound up, is there any other way to have found thisnout besides taking the master cyclinder off? Is there a chance the master cyclinder was good and cable just bad? Well any tinkering I do on odyssey is learning for me now and mechanically speaking. Thanks Can Oddy


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
fuesselfc wrote:
If the cable is rusted and bound up, is there any other way to have found thisnout besides taking the master cyclinder off? Is there a chance the master cyclinder was good and cable just bad? Well any tinkering I do on odyssey is learning for me now and mechanically speaking. Thanks Can Oddy


That's the easiest way.
Like I said before my money is on the master cylinder.
Your going to be a mechanic before this is all over. Welcome to the oddy world.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:34 am 
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So I got cables disconnected from brake master cylinder and it does turn out to be both front brake piston is shot and not moving and the front brake cable is stuck it seems at the bottom metal piece before wire comes out of bottom. Cable is moving at steering wheel.

Can can cable become free if enough lube gets in it to free it up?

Can I rebuild just the front brake piston of the cylinder? Just on a budget.

Do I need another one of these rubber gaskets as this one will not sit flat.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:11 am 
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canadian oddy wrote:
Jack the machine up and see if you can turn the wheels by hand. That will tell you if the brakes are dragging hard.
If the brake handles don't move then it's probably your master cylinder. The cables on the brake handles will most likely be ok but you can check them by removing the pin for the levers on the master cylinder. Then see if the handle moves.
Yes it will be slow progress. Rebuilding one of these is not a 5 minute project. The learning curve will be steep and sometimes very expensive.



I don't know exactly how to take the rubber boot off the master cyclinder. Can you tell me how it comes off and how it stays in place after replaced?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
fuesselfc wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Jack the machine up and see if you can turn the wheels by hand. That will tell you if the brakes are dragging hard.
If the brake handles don't move then it's probably your master cylinder. The cables on the brake handles will most likely be ok but you can check them by removing the pin for the levers on the master cylinder. Then see if the handle moves.
Yes it will be slow progress. Rebuilding one of these is not a 5 minute project. The learning curve will be steep and sometimes very expensive.



I don't know exactly how to take the rubber boot off the master cyclinder. Can you tell me how it comes off and how it stays in place after replaced?


That boot should just peel off easy. Then reform the rubber with your fingers. It is very flexible rubber. When you put it together it just sits in place and you put the metal cap on very carefully so you don't disturb the rubber out of place. Without this rubber boot the fluid will leak out. I azzuming you are talking about the picture above.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
fuesselfc wrote:
So I got cables disconnected from brake master cylinder and it does turn out to be both front brake piston is shot and not moving and the front brake cable is stuck it seems at the bottom metal piece before wire comes out of bottom. Cable is moving at steering wheel.

Can can cable become free if enough lube gets in it to free it up?

Can I rebuild just the front brake piston of the cylinder? Just on a budget.

Do I need another one of these rubber gaskets as this one will not sit flat.


Lets take these one at a time:
1) got cables disconnected from brake master cylinder and it does turn out to be both front brake piston is shot and not moving and the front brake cable is stuck it seems at the bottom metal piece before wire comes out of bottom. Cable is moving at steering wheel
This statement is very confusing to me and I don't know what you are really saying.
2) Can cable become free if enough lube gets in it to free it up?
Sometimes yes it will but not always.
3) Can I rebuild just the front brake piston of the cylinder? Just on a budget.
Sure you can, but is it worth the hassle if it don't work ??
4) Do I need another one of these rubber gaskets as this one will not sit flat
The rubber is very flexible and you should be able to reform it with your fingers. Without this gasket it will leak brake fluid.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
If you really have to you can probably make a new gasket out of a piece of inner tube. Then poke a very small hole in the center so the system can breath. I find it hard to believe that the original is shot. This area don't see much action so how would it get damaged ??
Also looking at the picture I see a lot of poo around one of the small rubber caps on the end of the pistons. Is that poo or was this thing in a fire and it melted the rubber cap ??
Post lots of pics of what you are talking about as it makes it easier for us to see what you are talking about. Everyone has different terminology when talking about the same thing. I noticed that at the various jobs I have had in my life. Different name same poo.


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