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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
I took my Pilot to the beach a couple sundays ago,it ran great with no problems.No sooner had I loaded it on the trailer getting ready to leave when I was bit by a rattlesnake hiding under my trailer :shock: .Ambulance ride to hospital ensued with my wife driving truck n trailer behind us.
Pilot sat outside on trailer in hospital parking lot{where I think someone stole my premix gas can,cant find it anywhere}till a buddy came and picked it up and it sat outside at his house for a few days.This pilot has aftermarket oversized gas tank so stock airbox is gone.I made that plastic one you see in pic,it had removable lid on it that must have blew off on way to hospital.My buddy put a plastic bag over where the lid was but not over top filter.It rained,so some water could have possibly got into top filter and dripped on bottom filter,and so it's possible some water might have dripped into carb but I doubt it,if some did I wouldn't expect it would have been much at all.
So last night I thought i'd try to start it,it would not start.Turns over but no start.Took plug out tonight after trying to start,it was wet and had a lot of gunk on it,didnt look so hot,but still it was running great when I parked it.Layed plug across cylinder and cranked it and its getting spark.Put a new spark plug in,no help.Checked fuses and they all look good.Oh and yes theres gas in tank and I switched it over to reserve to make sure,and yes its turned to the on mark on steering wheel,so I don't know what happened and why it wont start.
Oh and also my battery charger picked this time to crap out also,my battery needs charged on Pilot.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
That spark plug looks very very wet. More than someone would suspect if an Engine was running rich. While watching that youtube you posted of you trying to start it, it seems like it had a hard time trying to crank at first and then after two tries it finally spun up. That almost sounded like the piston was trying to hydraulic. Are you sure the crankcase is not full of water ?? Just for fun check your rad fluid. Is it full ?? If it is then your not leaking rad fluid into crankcase. Take the pulse line off of the fuel pump and crank it over. Does water or fuel come out ??


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22516
Location: Chicago
You need compression spark at the right time and a air fuel mix to make your Engine run.

Check compression.

You think spark is ok ?

Pour a little mix gas in the spark plug hole see if it will fire momentarily if it does disconnect the fuel line to the carb and fill it up so you know gas is in the carb.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 1779
Location: Ma
My curiosity is peaked...
First I hope you are doing well from your snake encounter..
I would try an ounce a fuel in the spark plug hole and see if she'll pop off for you.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 1779
Location: Ma
Ha... Hoser beat me...ya what he said....


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Ok thanks everyone for advice,still hobbling a little bit{got me right by the ankle} from snakebite but recovering ok.
Will have to wait till my day off Wed to try your suggestions.
I don't know if it would make a difference on how wet plug looked but after turning it over a few times and it not starting I cranked it over giving it a lot of gas with the throttle to see if that would do anything before I pulled the plug.
I can do a compression test but I tried pulling the pull start and it's got so much compression I couldnt pull it all the way out{ I never have been able to pull start this Engine,compression too high}
As far as why it had a hard time starting in video I think that was more because of the battery being low but like suggested I will check radiator


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Ok so got back on it today.First thing I did was check gas line going to carb,pulled it off and cranked it over to make sure it was pumping gas to carb,it was.
So pulled plug out and dumped about an ounce of premix in hole,almost fired but didnt sound right.
So then checked compression,used my favorite compression tester that last few times I've checked it was around 170.So hooked it up,couldnt see gauge while cranking it over of the way this one is made,it was facing opposite direction,so I looked at it and it looked like it hadnt moved,I thought theres no way theres no compression.So I got a stick to push the start button so I could see gauge,turns out the reason I thought it didnt move is because it was pegged to the other side over 200!
So I tried another compression gauge that I don't trust but the results on it were 170 and 180.
Put some more gas in plug hole,didnt sound as good as the first time,so that's where I am at now.
By the way since hoser rebuilt this Engine I have been mixing 112 race gas with 93 half n half,then about the last 5 tanks or so have switched over to just running 100ll av gas with no problems.



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Well went back outside because I had forgot to check radiator,it was full.Pulled plug again,this sure looks like water beaded up on the plug.So if water is in there what do I do now?
I don't think it even rained that hard or that long when it was sitting outside so it just boggles my mind on how water got in there,unless water was in my gas can which I don't see how that would happen either,its always indoors but it sure looks like water on the plug.
Put some more gas in hole and this time it ran for about 10 seconds but again didnt sound good.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2866
Location: East Peoria IL
Drain the fuel tank and see what comes out. Drain the carb bowl and see what comes out. Replace with fresh premix. Prime it again with fresh premix. See how it runs. At least you will know you have fresh fuel. If there is still water on the plug then perhaps you have water in the Engine.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
rmesser wrote:
Drain the fuel tank and see what comes out. Drain the carb bowl and see what comes out. Replace with fresh premix. Prime it again with fresh premix. See how it runs. At least you will know you have fresh fuel. If there is still water on the plug then perhaps you have water in the Engine.


Ok thanks,that was my first thought also


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 1779
Location: Ma
Draining the tank isn't a bad idea but I'd pull plug and pipe and crank it to see if you get water out of it... it's getting better each time which is why I think it might be moving the water out..
The problem with a 2 stoke is that if it is water and now it's migrated to the pipe.... it's likely going to continue to haunt you until the pipe gets hot enough to evaporate it..
People can do terrible things at times.. someone could of gave your plug a yank and dumped some shite in that Engine.... I hope I am wrong...
Who knows.... jealous people do weird things.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2866
Location: East Peoria IL
You need to find the source of the water an eliminate it. Starting at the fuel tank is the easiest in my mind. If there is water in the lower end I'm sure it has started to rust by now. I would want to inspect the lower end before I run it assuming the fuel is not the problem.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Ok so I drained the tank,it was not obvious to me if there was any water in gas,drained it in to a couple of buckets.So I drained bowl of carb which did look like it contained water.Left drain plug off carb and cranked it over till I started seeing gas without any water draining out,then put plug back on carb,let it fill up with gas,shook it some then drained gas again then hooked everything back up.Poured some premix down sparkplug hole and after a couple cranks it started.It ran crappy at first but then slowly started running better and better BUT there was tons of water draining out of muffler{as you will see in video}I revved it up about a minute then took it for a about 4- 50 yard runs up and down the street with it running great and when I stopped I see no more water coming out.
So I don't know if water was coming from Engine or there was water in the muffler? Anything else I should do?
Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
go oddy wrote:
Draining the tank isn't a bad idea but I'd pull plug and pipe and crank it to see if you get water out of it... it's getting better each time which is why I think it might be moving the water out..
The problem with a 2 stoke is that if it is water and now it's migrated to the pipe.... it's likely going to continue to haunt you until the pipe gets hot enough to evaporate it..
People can do terrible things at times.. someone could of gave your plug a yank and dumped some shite in that Engine.... I hope I am wrong...
Who knows.... jealous people do weird things.


I did not see this post before I posted the last one but you were sure right about the pipe,and it occurred to me also that i wondered if someone sabotaged it when it was sitting at the hospital.I'm not exactly sure where my wife was able to park it but she said she wasn't able to park it in the hospital parking lot but across the street somewhere.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Ok so to clarify some things,the hospital I was taken to was 100 miles from my house,but my buddy lived within 20 miles from hospital who picked it up.When texting with him I somehow got the impression it didnt rain that much,so I just now talked to him on the phone and he said that it did indeed rain a lot so I'm guessing it drained in thru the filters into the carb.
I'm going to drain the balancer and the transmission also,it's probably time anyway.I'm looking at the oil I have here,I see I have 2 qts that don't say anything about moly,and 1 opened qt that says no moly,can I use either one of these,I cant remember


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 1779
Location: Ma
redskinman wrote:
go oddy wrote:
Draining the tank isn't a bad idea but I'd pull plug and pipe and crank it to see if you get water out of it... it's getting better each time which is why I think it might be moving the water out..
The problem with a 2 stoke is that if it is water and now it's migrated to the pipe.... it's likely going to continue to haunt you until the pipe gets hot enough to evaporate it..
People can do terrible things at times.. someone could of gave your plug a yank and dumped some shite in that Engine.... I hope I am wrong...
Who knows.... jealous people do weird things.


I did not see this post before I posted the last one but you were sure right about the pipe,and it occurred to me also that i wondered if someone sabotaged it when it was sitting at the hospital.I'm not exactly sure where my wife was able to park it but she said she wasn't able to park it in the hospital parking lot but across the street somewhere.



Just glad you're back to have a running machine.
Change the fluids, clean and oil up the filter, change the plug and show us a video of you ripping around.
Regards G.O.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
Ok changed balancer and transmission oil,both looked almost brand new.I was told by fellow member to put oil with moly in balancer,oil without moly in transmission.
Honda made it difficult on me,I had 3 bottles in my possession probably purchased about a year ago or so.
The 3 on the far left are the old ones,2 on the right are new bought today.
So 2 on left don't say anything about moly,3rd from left says without moly,now the new with moly bottles are silver and the Honda dealer told me that new tan one next to the silver one doesnt have moly.So the question is does my 2 older ones on the left have moly or not? Do you see my confusion?
By the way Pilot seems to be running fine now,starting on its own without an gas added to plug hole and no sign of water.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 1779
Location: Ma
It's the torque clutch in the trans that necessitates the different oil, you don't want that clutch to slip because the oil is too slick.
Sorry, I don't have an answer for you regarding the oils you posted.
Regards


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3294
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
HP4 is HP4, just different labels on the gold bottles, no Molly :-). I ran that in my Pilot trans


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
The hp4 moly use in crankcase
Hp4 no moly use in trans.
The 450 r is the same way.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 pm
Posts: 3496
Location: houston
I was wondering do you think the water in the Engine is what made my compression tester test over 200?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2866
Location: East Peoria IL
Now that you have eliminated the water test the compression again.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
redskinman wrote:
I was wondering do you think the water in the Engine is what made my compression tester test over 200?


In my opinion yes.
Like I said earlier in the post, I thought the piston hydraulic when you were trying to start it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
If it was mine I would run some oil down the sparkplug hole and a bit of extra oil in the gas for the first run. The cylinder/bearings will rust with that water on it but I doubt the water was on it long enough to do any real damage. With a drained fuel tank I would put about 1 liter of fuel in it with extra oil and run it. Then fill your tank. Just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Fogging oil.


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