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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:02 am 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
http://www.keihin-na.com/aftermarket/pwk/

Your damn close. It should run.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:36 pm
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Location: Wilmington NC
canadian oddy wrote:
http://www.keihin-na.com/aftermarket/pwk/

Your damn close. It should run.


You're correct - Website calls for a 160 but didn't want to push my luck too far. Put a 162 in and she is ripping again. Laid a hole shot down on my driveway (which the wife is not happy about) and lifted the front wheels!
I must say, I've gotten over the urge to sell it now that it is running again. Really hope it stays this way for a while. It will only be time now that is the true test of whether or not it was a fuel issue. Will log some hours and update - hopefully later rather than sooner.

All cleaned and back together and even with beat up old side panels, she is looking good!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Location: Wilmington NC
Got 2 good solid hours of riding in today. With the 162 main jet she is launching well (still pulling the front wheels up -
awesome) and running pretty good up to about 3/4 throttle. Still sputtering and bogging down over that. This was a pic after sitting and idling a bit but did a plug chop in the field and it was dry and color was an orange-ish brown.

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Going to get a couple more hours in as is and then consider dropping down to the 160 again. I am starting to be a believer in Canadian Oddy's theory about gas ( i can hear him saying "I told you so" already). Running race 110 now and just picked up 5 gallons of AV 100LL which is not only about 3.25 per gallon cheaper but conveniently, the airport is closer than the place with the race gas.
Also, found out why they give you a spot for an extra belt. :shock: Glad I had one.

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Belt at 2 hours.jpg
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:56 am 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
dipnadactyl wrote:
Going to get a couple more hours in as is and then consider dropping down to the 160 again. I am starting to be a believer in Canadian Oddy's theory about gas ( i can hear him saying "I told you so" already). Running race 110 now and just picked up 5 gallons of AV 100LL which is not only about 3.25 per gallon cheaper but conveniently, the airport is closer than the place with the race gas.


Well actually this site ain't about "I told you so".
Most of the time nobody is actually right or wrong it's just that we have different beliefs.
Randman ran air cooled oddy's in the desert on pump gas. There was no way I could get mine to live on pump gas. There are guys that run Pilot's on pump gas with no issues but you can't.
As a millwright I have a theory. Machines actually have a personality. There are boy machines and girl machines. It's true.
Boy machines: Just run and run and run.
Girl machines: You have to play with them all the time or they get angry.

You sir have a girl machine.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:40 am 
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Location: Wilmington NC
canadian oddy wrote:
dipnadactyl wrote:
Going to get a couple more hours in as is and then consider dropping down to the 160 again. I am starting to be a believer in Canadian Oddy's theory about gas ( i can hear him saying "I told you so" already). Running race 110 now and just picked up 5 gallons of AV 100LL which is not only about 3.25 per gallon cheaper but conveniently, the airport is closer than the place with the race gas.


Well actually this site ain't about "I told you so".
Most of the time nobody is actually right or wrong it's just that we have different beliefs.
Randman ran air cooled oddy's in the desert on pump gas. There was no way I could get mine to live on pump gas. There are guys that run Pilot's on pump gas with no issues but you can't.
As a millwright I have a theory. Machines actually have a personality. There are boy machines and girl machines. It's true.
Boy machines: Just run and run and run.
Girl machines: You have to play with them all the time or they get angry.

You sir have a girl machine.



Hahaha :-)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
I have actually seen where two identical vehicles, set up the exact same way, require different jetting setups.

One other factor which will effect jetting is also how you drive and where you drive. When riding my air cooled only Ody, I keep a mindset that it's an air cooled vehicle and it need to cool down after a good thrashing. On a note as to how you ride, my son in law seized his Ody chasing a bunch of water cooled vehicles through the dunes at Glamis because he pushed it way too hard. We had been running in the dunes for two days using the same fuel and premix without issue. On day three the seizure occurred because he pushed it way too hard. He was trying to prove his little FL350 could keep up with the big boys and didn't let it cool down!

By the way Can Odd, I love the boy girl analogy. :-)

Rand


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Location: Wilmington NC
"You sir have a girl machine."

It still makes me laugh to read it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:54 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
What's happening here ??


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:41 am 
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Location: Wilmington NC
canadian oddy wrote:
What's happening here ??


Truck is in shop so nothing to tow trailer with until later this week.
Did notice my choke cable was possibly not seated all the way down in the carb even when the choke was completely depressed. Going to rip up and down the street a couple of times to see how she does on a WOT (Wide Open Throttle) run before messing with the jetting again. If it's even close, that will be how it stays for a while...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well that totally slipped my mind. Didn't even think about that.
Yeah if your choke is on nothing will run well. It must be seated.
Stock jetting should be fine.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Location: Wilmington NC
Happy to report that after two hours of hard trail and sand riding in 100 degree weather, all is well. Was trying to keep up with this beast -

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Still sputtering a bit at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) and have to feather it past half throttle to get it there but launching hard and plug color looks good.

Since getting running again, I went back to my first post about losing a piston (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16807) as well as the second (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16945) and reread them and it occurred to me - on the first rebuild, the mechanic who did it had a 55 gallon drum of race fuel and he threw a few gallons in for the first run. I then went to 93 octane afterwards so that rebuild was broken in on race fuel and lasted for a while before it melted down. The 2nd piston was broken in on 93 and almost immediately melted down and same for the third. Piston number four was again broken in on 110 and then switched to 93 before popping a hole in the top. Trend?
This piston has now gone through two tanks - one 110 and the second 100LL and all is good.

Here is one of the first responses i received on my initial post, from Canadian Oddy:

"You said you had grey on the plug so that tells me melted piston. I would like to see a picture of the pistons please. What kind of fuel are you running ?? What was the flow rate on your fuel pump ?? My money right now is lack of fuel and a lean out or you were running shitty gas and you detonated. Would love to see some pics. PS nice machine."

He continued to tell me this more times than I care to go back and count and it now looks like he had it right all along.

Summary: Anytime someone who has gone through as many pistons as he has tells you to use better gas, listen. Expensive gas is still cheaper than a rebuild. :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Randman and Adnoh make some valid comments.
Randman and I frequently cross swords on this fuel thing as we have different opinions, but he also has a valid comment on page two of this thread about a third of the way down.
Adnoh was trying to steer you into building the perfect Engine that will run on pump gas. Unfortunately some of us don't have the tooling, skills or money.
This all comes down to: "Do you have a boy machine or a girl machine ??"
If you have a girl machine and it's blowing holes -- run Avgas -- dragon slayer.

As for your top end sputtering I would try the stock main jet. I believe it is a 160. If that don't work then it could be an issue with electrical.
I would verify good connection between boot and sparkplug first. Then the following:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17418


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Location: Wilmington NC
canadian oddy wrote:
Randman and Adnoh make some valid comments.
Randman and I frequently cross swords on this fuel thing as we have different opinions, but he also has a valid comment on page two of this thread about a third of the way down.
Adnoh was trying to steer you into building the perfect Engine that will run on pump gas. Unfortunately some of us don't have the tooling, skills or money.
This all comes down to: "Do you have a boy machine or a girl machine ??"
If you have a girl machine and it's blowing holes -- run Avgas -- dragon slayer.

As for your top end sputtering I would try the stock main jet. I believe it is a 160. If that don't work then it could be an issue with electrical.
I would verify good connection between boot and sparkplug first. Then the following:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17418


Absolutely - all have been very helpful here and it is appreciated - Huge Thank You To All!
Randman does make a good point about riding style and everything I have read has confirmed his point about the machines all requiring individual jetting regardless of everything else being the same.
And WOW - really can't say enough about Adnoh's input, it was like a novel. While I had to read through it a few times to get my head around it, it taught me a lot about the internal process of a two stroke Engine. Unfortunately, after the cash I have already laid out in top end rebuilds and everything else (but mostly top end rebuilds), I am not in a position to start messing with the porting and timing. Yet.

Spark plug boot is new but checked it anyway and everything looks good. Gonna leave my jetting as is with a 162 for now and just run it. After a few months, if still sputtering up top, I'll take a stab at dropping down a size.
And yes, I apparently do have a girl machine which seems to require an inordinate amount of attention. No problem though, if she is happy with avgas, so am I.

Hopefully, this thread will continue to build the knowledge base here and help someone in the future.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
What position is you needle in. 39 mm Kehin ?
Sound to me from what you described you need to leave main alone and lower the needle( raise the clip) one position.
That should clean it up past half to full. Or lean that part of throttle position.
This of course if your not already on position one or two. It's a easy change to do if better or no change. No change put it back if better or spot on do plug chop. I bet it will clean it right up since it's. Stock pipe.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:42 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
dipnadactyl wrote:
Still sputtering a bit at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) and have to feather it past half throttle to get it there but launching hard and plug color looks good.


I agree with adnoh comment. Instead of the main jet change, go with the clip change on the needle. It won't hurt it and it is easier to do than a main jet anyway. I thought you were having trouble at the top end only but the way you describe it here (feathering to get there), that's a needle.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:14 am 
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Posts: 313
Location: Wilmington NC
adnoh wrote:
What position is you needle in. 39 mm Kehin ?
Sound to me from what you described you need to leave main alone and lower the needle( raise the clip) one position.
That should clean it up past half to full. Or lean that part of throttle position.
This of course if your not already on position one or two. It's a easy change to do if better or no change. No change put it back if better or spot on do plug chop. I bet it will clean it right up since it's. Stock pipe.


Yes, 39mm and needle is clipped in center position (position 3). It's definitely easier than swapping the jet - sounds like good advice. Will give it a try and update. Heading out of town so may be a few days.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Anymore updates on this top end sputtering ??


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:59 am 
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Location: Wilmington NC
canadian oddy wrote:
Anymore updates on this top end sputtering ??

Nothing yet. Vaca w family in OBX


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:42 pm 
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Update: my girl machine seems to have grown a set! Octane is king and the pilot is a monster.
Took Adnoh's advice and dropped the needle down a notch (raised the clip to the number two position) and seems better but still a little doggish at the top end. Strong out of the hole and once at roughly half throttle can get up to speed but if you try to punch it from there it bogs down. Put a good couple of hours down and no issues other than that, and that is a good thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Location: Carson City NV
Do a couple of plug chops at wide open throttle and post pictures of the plug(s).

Rand


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Pull the lid on the air box and let it breathe. Then take it for a high speed run. How is it ??


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:33 am 
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Location: Chicago
canadian oddy wrote:
Pull the lid on the air box and let it breathe. Then take it for a high speed run. How is it ??


Reset the clip on the needle to where it was before removing the lid on the airbox, test with lid off if better but still sputtering lower the needle one notch at a time and retest .

What is the letters on the needle ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:19 am 
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Location: Wilmington NC
hoser wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Pull the lid on the air box and let it breathe. Then take it for a high speed run. How is it ??


Reset the clip on the needle to where it was before removing the lid on the airbox, test with lid off if better but still sputtering lower the needle one notch at a time and retest .

What is the letters on the needle ?


Letters on needle are DGJ. Will reset to center before testing w/o lid.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Location: Wichita ks
Wow!
DGJ
CO, maybe post up needle chart.
This may have something to to with the poor transition.
Shop install on did it come with it.

Starting to make even more since.
For some reason I thought we covered the needle in past post. If not, our bad.sorry.

Every Engine different so that may be what it needs. I will look at my chart when get home. The DJ just don't seam right.
Interesting. Slow is a 55? I'll go back and read


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
adnoh wrote:
Wow!
DGJ
CO, maybe post up needle chart.
This may have something to to with the poor transition.
Shop install on did it come with it.

Starting to make even more since.
For some reason I thought we covered the needle in past post. If not, our bad.sorry.

Every Engine different so that may be what it needs. I will look at my chart when get home. The DJ just don't seam right.
Interesting. Slow is a 55? I'll go back and read


We are not getting all the information here adnoh.
I did post up a chart at the very top of this page (link). http://www.keihin-na.com/aftermarket/pwk/
Apparently it is the same issue I had with the Mikuni flat slides that I have. There is more than one carb of the same size. You have to look at the suffix number at the end. It makes all the difference and he has not told us EXACTLY which carb he has.
I wana see a photo of the serial number stamp of that carb to be sure.


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