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 Post subject: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
What coolant temp. does your pilot run at, with a FL400 Engine.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
That would be the same temperature that the fan sensor turns on at right? I currently have my radiator apart and plan on testing the fan sensor by placing in a pan of water on the stove with a thermometer to see at what temp it turns on. I'll update when I get to it.


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
rmesser wrote:
That would be the same temperature that the fan sensor turns on at right? I currently have my radiator apart and plan on testing the fan sensor by placing in a pan of water on the stove with a thermometer to see at what temp it turns on. I'll update when I get to it.


Good day Sir, the manual says the fan comes on at 175*F and off at 167*F, mine comes on at 178*F and off at 165*F so I think my fan is working fine. I would think that Honda wanted the Engine to run in the area of the cooling fan temperature or at least for the cooling fan to be able to keep the temp. in that range.
Cars run much hotter then that, most of the cooling fans I have seen come on at anywhere from 210* to 228*.

The weird thing is the temp. sensor light in the manual says on at 246*F and off at 115*F, this does not make sense to me.

I am still in break in on my LT, 1/2 throttle runs now, the temp. is climbing up to 185*F and it seems that it would go higher but I stop and let the Engine cool down before proceeding. I have checked everything there is to check, coolant flow, air flow, my radiator is spotless inside and out, exhaust (no restrictions), I thoroughly flushed the pipe before installing and have since pulled my spark arrestor out and checked the silencer, it is fine no restrictions. I even warmed up my wife's pilot and compared exhaust flow, they are about the same. My jetting is rich for sure.

Maybe my Engine is just good and tight and I am worrying for nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Have you got one of those heat guns ??
Shoot it with the heat gun and see if your temp gauge reads the same.
Your temp gauge may be out.

I noticed our FL350 oddy's run better the cooler they are. Our temps never get over 130'F with those big civic radiators and the engines like it.


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Quote:
The weird thing is the temp. sensor light in the manual says on at 246*F and off at 115*F, this does not make sense to me.


I assume the light comes on right before boil over and Honda wanted the RED light glaring at you until the Engine has cooled down and you have investigated WTH happen that caused your Engine to over heat?

All the years of Pilot ownership I have never had the HOT light come one once not sure I recall anybody else having over heating problems either IMO if maintained the cooling system does a great job of cooling even on full modified engines.


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
canadian oddy wrote:
Have you got one of those heat guns ??
Shoot it with the heat gun and see if your temp gauge reads the same.
Your temp gauge may be out.

I noticed our FL350 oddy's run better the cooler they are. Our temps never get over 130'F with those big civic radiators and the engines like it.


Hello, yes sir I have double checked my gauge with my infrared thermometer.

130*F that is running very cool, is your cylinder liquid cooled as well or just your cylinder head.

hoser wrote:
Quote:
The weird thing is the temp. sensor light in the manual says on at 246*F and off at 115*F, this does not make sense to me.


I assume the light comes on right before boil over and Honda wanted the RED light glaring at you until the Engine has cooled down and you have investigated WTH happen that caused your Engine to over heat?

All the years of Pilot ownership I have never had the HOT light come one once not sure I recall anybody else having over heating problems either IMO if maintained the cooling system does a great job of cooling even on full modified engines.


My light has never come on either, last time my Engine blew while at the end of break in, I had let my friend ride it (we were not going fast at all) and told him to watch the temps. but he did not, I was in front in another pilot and as soon as he stopped I jumped out and checked my gauges, the only thing that stood out gauge wise was the temp. was at 225*F.


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
scpilot66 wrote:
130*F that is running very cool, is your cylinder liquid cooled as well or just your cylinder head.


Both cylinder and head are water cooled. Homemade both of them.


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
I have some data on this. Out of town right now. Post up when I get back. Have questions for you I have ran high temp Engine.
Rich


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
canadian oddy wrote:
Both cylinder and head are water cooled. Homemade both of them.

Very cool. Thank you very much for the replies.
adnoh wrote:
I have some data on this. Out of town right now. Post up when I get back. Have questions for you I have ran high temp Engine.
Rich

Hello Rich, that would be great. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Sorry been busy.
I puled up my temp data. Looks like other than when I had an head gasket issue max temp was around 210 on a hot day with a fresh Engine.
The normal operating temp for me was from 171 to 202 with a static of 170 to 178 psi.
I have though ran as high as 250 with a head issue. low compression build so not that big of deal.

As you know a fresh tight Engine with rings not setted will run hot. If you have checked ever thing I ask you to check this. with your heat gun when you guage temp hits 200 shut off the Engine. take four reading.
#1 top of head
#2 intake where the reeds bolt in
#3 exhaust flange
#4 most important: starting at the ex flange work you way out the pipe until you reach a major fluctuation. Make metal note of temp increase/ decrease and distance. Don't touch to measure its hot. You will find this interesting. That distance will help to see if its coolant or Engine issue. Long number Engine short number coolant. Its like finding the wet line with a heat gun. if the Engine timing is off for the fuel long number on pipe is super heating. You can use the recommended point of the EGT probe for the pilot as a reference line.

Or could be bad probe location.


Attachments:
File comment: my probe location
LS Ride 4-10-09 006.jpg
LS Ride 4-10-09 006.jpg [ 66.36 KiB | Viewed 797 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
I went back and read you post. You say , breaking in Engine at half throttle. While at half throttle the temp is rising to 230. Then you shut Down.

This tells me your most likely lean on the mid. That is typical of a Engine, getting hot, hotter and hotter. and getting ready to sieze and heading towards detanation.

I would raise the needle,lowering the clip and see if it helps before doing any thing else. If it lowers your temp or take longer to get hot at same throttle position than that is what's happing. If not than reset and keep looking.
This may also explain why you lost the Engine the first time. Good catch.
Adnoh


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
From what I read here you had a fresh Engine and were at the back end of a break in. You let a friend drive it and poofkaboom. All you noticed was a high temp on that poofkaboom. So you rebuild, check everything (coolant flow etc) and now is still running hot at half throttle. Just my opinion here but pull the exhaust and look in the hole for signs of detonation on that piston (pit marks on top of piston or ring lands rough).


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
CO, He said when the first Engine went they were not going very fast. That tells me in the mid range or at least 1/4 to 3/4 throttle position.
Now he said breaking in @ 1/2 throttle position.
This is not his first Engine break in and or jetting section. He pretty darn smart. If he said all checks out and no air leaks coolant issues. It has to be a combustion issue.

So first we look at air fuel ratios then the fuel it's self. Since your a air cooled guy. Look at this way and I have seen this for my self. In an air cooled Engine with an egt I have seen several failures due the jetting on the needle.
The owner has jetted at a given egt thinking all was well right even on to the main. He sees the egt start to drop with good Engine preformance. Then after a while. You know by bye piston. What I did to resolve and get my point across was install a CHAT probe with an EGT probe. What one will find is the egt starts to drop from a lean condition and that is normal with an egt guage. What stands out is when egt levels out it starts to drop the CHT continues to rise untill the piston fails. I found in almost every case the needle was lean and main jetting would not fix this. Hench I recommend the needle adjustment to see if it helps or nothing changes. If helps look there if not look at fuel or other cause.

Granted we do not have information like CR or Static or pipe head etc. No big deal since the one of the only thing that will raise Engine temps at a given throttle position in the mid range is a lean condition of some kind. Since the needle controls this. I recommend a quick check before getting carried away with things. I would also strongly recommend he discusses this with his Engine builder before doing it or making a change.
His Engine builder knows his Engine better a
Than any one. Plus he had to fix it when it goes bad.

Adnoh


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 Post subject: Re: FL400 coolant temp.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
adnoh wrote:
CO, He said when the first Engine went they were not going very fast. That tells me in the mid range or at least 1/4 to 3/4 throttle position.
Now he said breaking in @ 1/2 throttle position.
This is not his first Engine break in and or jetting section. He pretty darn smart. If he said all checks out and no air leaks coolant issues. It has to be a combustion issue.

So first we look at air fuel ratios then the fuel it's self. Since your a air cooled guy. Look at this way and I have seen this for my self. In an air cooled Engine with an egt I have seen several failures due the jetting on the needle.
The owner has jetted at a given egt thinking all was well right even on to the main. He sees the egt start to drop with good Engine preformance. Then after a while. You know by bye piston. What I did to resolve and get my point across was install a CHAT probe with an EGT probe. What one will find is the egt starts to drop from a lean condition and that is normal with an egt guage. What stands out is when egt levels out it starts to drop the CHT continues to rise untill the piston fails. I found in almost every case the needle was lean and main jetting would not fix this. Hench I recommend the needle adjustment to see if it helps or nothing changes. If helps look there if not look at fuel or other cause.

Granted we do not have information like CR or Static or pipe head etc. No big deal since the one of the only thing that will raise Engine temps at a given throttle position in the mid range is a lean condition of some kind. Since the needle controls this. I recommend a quick check before getting carried away with things. I would also strongly recommend he discusses this with his Engine builder before doing it or making a change.
His Engine builder knows his Engine better a
Than any one. Plus he had to fix it when it goes bad.

Adnoh


Agree.

That's why when I posted a thread called "beginners jetting" I said: "Get on the carb manufacture web site and find the stock jets for your carb. Set it to the factory middle clip position and leave it there. Most riders couldn't tell the difference if it was slightly rich or lean anyways so don't gamble by screwing around. The factory setting is goddamn close."
I just wanted him to look for signs of detonation. Poo fuel. He might have a girl machine. Amen.


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