Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login   * Register * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email   
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:16 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Piston welding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Piston welding anyone ??
Damn I wish the ring lands weren't damaged on this piston because I would install it.


Attachments:
20170722_225018.jpg
20170722_225018.jpg [ 33.18 KiB | Viewed 956 times ]
20170722_230249.jpg
20170722_230249.jpg [ 30.91 KiB | Viewed 956 times ]
20170722_232650.jpg
20170722_232650.jpg [ 41.47 KiB | Viewed 956 times ]
20170722_232655.jpg
20170722_232655.jpg [ 33.55 KiB | Viewed 956 times ]
20170722_232940.jpg
20170722_232940.jpg [ 34.02 KiB | Viewed 956 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
more


Attachments:
20170722_233034.jpg
20170722_233034.jpg [ 39.27 KiB | Viewed 954 times ]
20170722_233055.jpg
20170722_233055.jpg [ 37.14 KiB | Viewed 954 times ]
20170722_233135.jpg
20170722_233135.jpg [ 55.65 KiB | Viewed 954 times ]
20170722_233141.jpg
20170722_233141.jpg [ 40.97 KiB | Viewed 954 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
I'm impressed. Would be interesting to run it.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I'm not afraid to fail.
But I am certain this would work -- I'd bet money on it.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10687&start=25


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
That's cool hoser. Did you ever get a chance to run that welded piston ??


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
canadian oddy wrote:
That's cool hoser. Did you ever get a chance to run that welded piston ??



Naw its still laying around the shop some place I would not hesitate to try it but I know the consequences if it Poofkaboomed too :-) Be a great experiment.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Since I am going to end the piston molding thread, I think I will resurrect this one.
As soon as I figure out what bore that other cylinder is on, maybe I have a piston here that I can weld up and install.
Stay tuned :-) .


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Just received a cylinder from CurtisR401 -- awesome.
It's on it's last bore 82mm and I got a blown piston to weld up. This piston is from the Engine that blew the connecting rod bearing when my stock intake developed a crack and leaned out the Engine. The bad part is this piston has no hole in it. The good part is that the top ring land is damaged and the top of the piston has shrapnel imbedded in it and some divets from the bearing rollers.
Not sure yet but I think I might drill a hole in the top of it so I can re-weld it.
This will be a fun winter project.


Attachments:
20181016_135556.jpg
20181016_135556.jpg [ 43.03 KiB | Viewed 676 times ]
20181016_135627.jpg
20181016_135627.jpg [ 41.77 KiB | Viewed 676 times ]
20181016_135641.jpg
20181016_135641.jpg [ 35.78 KiB | Viewed 676 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Should I drill a hole in it and weld up ??


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well I spent a bit of time on this tonight.
The pics below will tell the story.
You will notice that the piston still had some of the rod bearing pieces embedded into it.
They are magnetic so if you run a magnet around you can tell what is metal and what is just a divet.
These pieces come out real easy with one of those automatic center punches. Usually on the second punch.
Then I ground the back end of the ring stop pin (inside the piston), and punched this pin back just far enough to be below the ring land. The reason is that I will be pushing it back into position once I have welded and re-cut the ring land with a lathe tool that will be specially ground for this job.


Attachments:
20181022_194338.jpg
20181022_194338.jpg [ 56.6 KiB | Viewed 616 times ]
20181022_194820.jpg
20181022_194820.jpg [ 30.43 KiB | Viewed 616 times ]
20181022_195454.jpg
20181022_195454.jpg [ 34.96 KiB | Viewed 616 times ]
File comment: Here I ground the back side of piston so that I could push the ring stop pin back
20181022_203306.jpg
20181022_203306.jpg [ 37.45 KiB | Viewed 616 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Next I measured the ring groove size with a feeler gauge.
It's .047 wide.


Attachments:
20181022_203909.jpg
20181022_203909.jpg [ 47.66 KiB | Viewed 616 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Before welding I took some piston measurements for later use because I will have to turn it down in the lathe. Measurements were taken by my highest quality Chinese mic's, in line with the piston skirts. It appears that there is a .020" taper from top to bottom on an 82mm wiseco piston. Also of important note here is that there is an .008" difference (almost half of the total) between the measurement at the bottom of the bottom ring groove to the top of the piston. I don't really know how accurate that is because this piston was damaged but I tried to find a clean spot. I think it is close though. This would make sense to me because it gets real hot at the crown of the piston compared to the bottom of the bottom ring, and even less at the skirts because these areas get cooled a bit by the incoming charge.
I also took a measurement opposite of the wrist pin to see if the pistons are oval. I got a .002" difference but I really don't trust that measurement with my equipment. If they are oval then it's not much and there is no way I could do that in my lathe anyways. I will only have to dress up the top part of the piston anyways and re-cut the ring groove if this is successful.

Really looking foreword to this project.
When the piston is done I will have to liquid cool the cylinder CurtisR401 sent me and make a liquid cooled head from scratch, but that's a ways off.


Attachments:
20181022_222510.jpg
20181022_222510.jpg [ 48.3 KiB | Viewed 610 times ]
20181022_222728.jpg
20181022_222728.jpg [ 47.9 KiB | Viewed 610 times ]
20181022_223052.jpg
20181022_223052.jpg [ 48.12 KiB | Viewed 610 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Project is coming along nicely as time permits.
Today I welded up the piston, made a cutter for the ring groove, cleaned up the piston.
As you can see it don't work out on the first try and requires possibly a few tries. There is not enough weld on the edge on one spot and also a small porosity hole. Also I tried to use a piece of copper in the ring groove to try to save me some work. That didn't work out very well. The copper and the aluminum weld just adhered to each other. Don't do it. Other than that it seems fine.
You will also notice that I had to make a ring for the base of the piston so that you can hold it in the lathe. A piston only has two skirts but a lathe has three jaws so this ring is required.
Also you will note that the dummy that was welding did not have a good ground when he was welding on the top of the piston. This caused the skirt to arc out on the table -- IDIOT -- the worst part is I know better.


Attachments:
File comment: IDIOT welder didn't have a proper ground
20181023_210501.jpg
20181023_210501.jpg [ 30.35 KiB | Viewed 586 times ]
File comment: Welded up the piston but used copper in the ring groove to try to save work -- don't do it
20181023_210124.jpg
20181023_210124.jpg [ 47.33 KiB | Viewed 586 times ]
File comment: Made a cutter for the ring groove
20181023_214554.jpg
20181023_214554.jpg [ 32.92 KiB | Viewed 586 times ]
File comment: Dial in the piston so it rolls straight
20181023_222706.jpg
20181023_222706.jpg [ 50.89 KiB | Viewed 586 times ]
File comment: When re-cutting the ring groove I didn't use machine power. I just turned it by hand and cut the groove
20181023_223146.jpg
20181023_223146.jpg [ 49.56 KiB | Viewed 586 times ]
File comment: Results -- will have to redo it again
20181023_230737.jpg
20181023_230737.jpg [ 30.47 KiB | Viewed 586 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Here are the results of the re-weld job.
I had to do all of the above again because of a couple of flaws. It wasn't a surprise that I would have to do the lathe work two or maybe three times. Looks like twice was good.
In the pics below you will see that I re-welded the flaws, recut in the lathe, set the ring stop pin in place, welded the back side and grind out the excess, sand blast to look for more flaws. Also tried the piston in the cylinder and feeler gauged it. You will notice that since the pistons are tapered I got a .017" in at the rings and a .005" at the skirt. So when you measure pistons, it's at the skirt.
I am satisfied with the outcome of this project. At this point I think this is the end of this thread until I install it in the Engine I am currently building. I will update this thread next year at riding season. The Engine with this piston will be installed in the death machine.
There are many reasons why I did this. One of them is that if this is successful it would prove that you never need to buy another piston again unless it is worn down out of spec. If you blow a hole in it or lose a rod end bearing and smash up the piston, you can just re-weld it. That's the theory anyway.

Currently getting ready to liquid cool that cylinder that CurtisR401 sent me and stripping a spare bottom end Engine I had on the shelf. Then building a liquid cooled head from scratch. All of this stuff will be bolted together and run next year. I will start new threads for this stuff and not contaminate this one.


Attachments:
File comment: Re-weld the flaws and repair in the lathe.
20181024_201715.jpg
20181024_201715.jpg [ 55.99 KiB | Viewed 556 times ]
File comment: Reset the ring stop pin, re-weld back side and grind off excess.
20181024_214455.jpg
20181024_214455.jpg [ 41.83 KiB | Viewed 556 times ]
File comment: Final result
20181024_215306.jpg
20181024_215306.jpg [ 37.8 KiB | Viewed 556 times ]
File comment: Final result
20181024_215314.jpg
20181024_215314.jpg [ 38.89 KiB | Viewed 556 times ]
File comment: Final result
20181024_215322.jpg
20181024_215322.jpg [ 42.6 KiB | Viewed 556 times ]
File comment: Final result
20181024_215330.jpg
20181024_215330.jpg [ 33.5 KiB | Viewed 556 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Feeler gauge pics.

THE END


Attachments:
File comment: .017" at ring area
20181024_220957.jpg
20181024_220957.jpg [ 42.04 KiB | Viewed 556 times ]
File comment: .005" at the skirt area
20181024_221242.jpg
20181024_221242.jpg [ 47.82 KiB | Viewed 556 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piston welding
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:33 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Rhode Island
Nice work!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Rppjr


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group