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 Post subject: Woodruff keyway repair.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:36 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
So the keyway on my crankshaft has some slight wear to it. Just a little wobble but any wobble is too much.
So I have a few ideas to fix it while the crank is still installed but I'm interested to see what solutions you guys may have.
Alot of you guys think so far out of my league I really could use some of that now.
Edd


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
FloridaEdd wrote:
So the keyway on my crankshaft has some slight wear to it. Just a little wobble but any wobble is too much.
So I have a few ideas to fix it while the crank is still installed but I'm interested to see what solutions you guys may have.
Alot of you guys think so far out of my league I really could use some of that now.
Edd


That could be an issue alright.
I don't see an easy fix here because the problem is that on an oddy the flywheel is part of the ignition system. Welding on a crank could cause it to crack and break. Any glue like JB Weld won't hold. The only solution that I can see would be similar to what I did on a gearbox at work. I cut a new keyway in the shaft about a third of the way past the old keyway. The problem here is that it would change your timing.
You could cut this damaged keyway to accept a bigger woodruff key and then hand file down the top part to match the flywheel keyway. Not an easy task though.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
I was hoping u were still off of work.
This is on my Chevy sprint turbo Engine.
On the forum I go to for the buggy every one welds it then files it. It's a common thing on these engines after 30 years.
I was thinking about going one size larger as u suggested.
Next time I rebuild the lower end I'll replace the crankshaft it's under 200$ but I'm not about to pull it out unless I totally destroy this one.
Not only am I cheap but sometimes lazy.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
FloridaEdd wrote:
I was hoping u were still off of work.
This is on my Chevy sprint turbo Engine.
On the forum I go to for the buggy every one welds it then files it. It's a common thing on these engines after 30 years.
I was thinking about going one size larger as u suggested.
Next time I rebuild the lower end I'll replace the crankshaft it's under 200$ but I'm not about to pull it out unless I totally destroy this one.
Not only am I cheap but sometimes lazy.


Cheap and lazy is ALWAYS the way to go. Some employers I have worked for don't seem to understand that when one of their employees is sweating then that means they are losing money because something is wrong. When it seems no one is doing anything then the place is rocking and making money. I remember when we broke a production record one time. It seemed no one was moving and there was silence on the radio. So cheap and lazy means cash and profit to me.

As for cutting a bigger key I would suggest caution. You need a way to cut the groove and it must be accurate or you are wasting your time. You will also need to make some kind of jig to hold your cutter. That may be difficult in a confined space. Then you have to file down or cut down the bigger key. That's another issue where you have to be accurate. I am thinking it may be a lot easier to do it when crank is out and you can do it in a milling machine. Any other way is a real problem. This is not a hack n whack.
Can you just cut another groove on the crank or is it a crank fire ??


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
I always say im not lazy i just don't do more then i have to.
Work smart or work hard. If youre gonna be stupid u better be strong.
If I were to pull it I'd just buy a new one. Only one side is damaged which means I have a good side to line up with and would take the cog to a machine shop to cut that groove for the larger key so alignment wouldn't be an issue.
This is far from a doom and gloom issue, some just replace the cog and key holding it lined up as they torque the cog down and they say it holds fine but I beat mine pretty hard so I want to do a little more then that but I'm not opposed to it and coating the shafts with that sleeve lock stuff u had me use on my tranny bearings.
I got a week until it gets here to kick around ideas.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
FloridaEdd wrote:
Work smart or work hard. If youre gonna be stupid u better be strong.


Baahahahahaahaha I am gona use that one.

One other thing I would like to suggest is what I have done at work many times. Measure the top of the worn keyway (your keyway will be worn more on the top than the bottom). Then measure your key. The difference will be the size of the shim you need. Cut a piece of shim stock that will fit. It will also have to be flush with the crank. Put it in the slot and tap down the key. If it is a very thin piece of shim stock like .003 or something like that then it may not work because the shim stock will just ball up when you tap the key in.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
Yeah. That's one of my favorites, that and
"She wasn't much of a wrestler, but u should have seen her box"

I like the shim idea. I would have to even up the grove as its worn more so at the top. The key and cog distorted more then the crank so the shim may just the ticket.
Ill measure it next time I run outside just to see where I'm at. (Now that I know how to read my dial caliper)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
90/1000 ths is how wide the key groove on the cog is where it did not actually ride on the keyway so it's not damaged.
238/1000ths is how wide the very top of my groove is on the crank this tapers down and at 82/1000ths down in the groove it narrows down to 190/1000ths and stays that width to approximately 175/1000ths


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
FloridaEdd wrote:
90/1000 ths is how wide the key groove on the cog is where it did not actually ride on the keyway so it's not damaged.
238/1000ths is how wide the very top of my groove is on the crank this tapers down and at 82/1000ths down in the groove it narrows down to 190/1000ths and stays that width to approximately 175/1000ths


So it is .238 at the top and it is .190 at the bottom. So that's .048 or as you put it 48/1000.
Wow that's a lot in my opinion. Looks like you need some .040 shim stock or two .020 pieces.
You got nothing to lose. Try it -- good luck.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Just had a brain fart.
Do you have a spare woodruff key there ??
If you do then I would braze one side of the key and file it down but leave .048 for the worn area.
Use brazing rod not welding rod. Welding may be to hot and destroy the key and brazing is easier to file down.
Just a thought.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
I was thinking the same thing as far as welding on the key. Bronze may be too soft to give good support though. I'm gonna grab a key when I'm out tomorrow and play around and see what I can come up with.
Could also buy a second key and file/cut it to make a spacer.
If my welder wasn't fried I'd sure hit it with a weld I'm thinking but that's not an option


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Its always been to my understanding that the key is just to indicate the precise location of the flywheel so the timing is correct and its the taper on the flywheel and the torque on the nut is what keeps the flywheel in place.

I recall back in the day FL250 racers removing the key and advancing their timing a few degrees then locking the flywheel down then came offset keys for the guys who wanted the timing fast and easy.

Remember a member here long ago putting lapping compound on flywheel tapers and rotating the two parts to ensure they mated well, washing off the lapping compound then installing as normal.

Again the key is a timing location indicator.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
Hoser
The end of my crankshaft isnt tapered but it is a snug fit. I guess if the key actully held anything it would destroy it pretty quick. That makes me feel better about what ever solution I decide on though.
Thank you


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
I had an advance key on my FL350. With the way it was offset, there was no way it was holding anything in place. It is just a key to give the flywheel a registration point. As mentioned before, the taper and the screw is what holds it in place.

In your case the flywheel probably buts up against the end of the crank which is what actually holds it in place.

Rand


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