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Who runs Avgas or a mix
Who runs straight Avgas ? 22%  22%  [ 6 ]
Who runs a mix ? 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Who runs pump gas only ? 56%  56%  [ 15 ]
Who runs race gas ? 15%  15%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 27
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 Post subject: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
The title says it.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
I run premium automotive gas.

Don't even know where to buy aviation fuel. The airport I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
I voted. Where is my sticker? that's the best part about voteing.
Should let people know there are no stickers.

Should have non ethanol listed too.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
FloridaEdd wrote:
I voted. Where is my sticker? that's the best part about voteing.
Should let people know there are no stickers.

Should have non ethanol listed too.


I would put the non ethanol under the pump gas.
I just wanted to have a rough idea how many here run Avgas for argument sake.
Come on don't be shy -- 23 views and 8 votes ?? Grow a pair and vote. No sitting on the fence. There are more than 8 drivers of oddy's and pilots on this site.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
That sounds an awful lot like a micro agreesion against drakart owners.
I'm gonna sit here and pet my dog until I feel safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
FloridaEdd wrote:
That sounds an awful lot like a micro agreesion against drakart owners.
I'm gonna sit here and pet my dog until I feel safe.


Micro aggression would be a reasonable belief. I'm 5'5" and 130 lbs.
Pet your dog.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
Bet u r squirrely though.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:45 pm
Posts: 149
Location: cleveland oh
Been running straight 100 octane (Cam 2) gas because you've scared the $hit out of me with your AV gas threads. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:39 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Sacramento
Running 50/50 race and non ethanol 92 octane after last burned piston only lasted 3 days. We'll see if it makes a difference


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:42 am
Posts: 642
I run av gas in every two Stoke I own. With redline synthetic. And I've had zero issues. I like it especially for weedeaters and chainsaws for its long shelf life. Stuff that just sits most of the time. California has terrible gas at the pumps. Any opportunities to fill up out of state I jump on. In my opinion it's far better than what you can buy at the pumps here but not as good or as expensive as race fuel.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:42 am
Posts: 642
Oh one more thing to add. If you do run av gas mark it mixed. The blue coloring can fool you into thinking it's already been mixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am
Posts: 793
IMHO
pump gas will work, but leaving any gas in the tank for more than a week will turn the gas into shit. I run race gas every time and will never use pump gas again. CO is absolutely right about using a better fuel, weather it be race gas or av gas, it is a small investment to help keep your Engine running well.

CO, keep on preaching sir, good stuff:)


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well that's 7 to 9 so far.
Very interesting as I did not think for a moment that it would be that high based on things I have read on this site. That's almost 50/50. Interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:45 am
Posts: 252
Location: South Haven, MI
You guys gave me some insight on why I burned up my last piston. But what seems strange is way in basically all the same engines do we all have different results? Does it have to do with the minor adjustments/tweaks we all make?

My rebuilt top end should be completed this next weekend and going to a water cooled setup. Any thing I should know about a water cooled setup?

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
MGurgone40 wrote:
You guys gave me some insight on why I burned up my last piston. But what seems strange is way in basically all the same engines do we all have different results? Does it have to do with the minor adjustments/tweaks we all make?

My rebuilt top end should be completed this next weekend and going to a water cooled setup. Any thing I should know about a water cooled setup?

Mike


Well once again -- Machines are as individual as people. No two are the same. Each machine has small differences that make a huge difference.
That's why some can run pump gas and others can't.

Water cooled set up: Some plumb it so that if the pump fails then the thermosphyin thing will still work.

Edit: Randman's thermo syph set up: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16056&hilit=thermo


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:36 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Wilmington NC
My girl machine runs av fuel. CO kept telling me that was my problem but being hard headed, I chose to keep doing the same thing (blow up piston, bore and replace x 4) and hope for a different result. Until I got to the 82mm piston - and blew a hole in it also. Luckily I was able to hone and replace with another 82mm. I then decided to follow his recommendation and upgrade my fuel choice. Happy to say she is running quite well now. It's actually pretty amazing how much better then buggy is running now. Sits for a week and I go out to the garage and turn the key - don't press throttle or adjust choke - and starts up immediately. Every time.

Heading to local MX area, Busco Beach for a ride tomorrow. Hope to post a good results report.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
i have been running avgas for a few years now. mix 40:1 with motul


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1430
Location: Norco, CA
100% Avgas with 52:1 golden spectral, 12 oz in 5 gal, no issues, turns the blue avgas green.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Thanks for all those who voted.
It looks like it's 50/50 and that's what I wanted to know. It may be early as others will still vote but that gives me some kind idea on who uses what.
Basically I wanted to know if I was one of the very few people who run better fuel than pump gas. I wanted to know because it does come up in threads when we talk about fuel.
It's my honest belief that oddy's need better fuel than what is being provided today at the pumps. These machines were made after the stone age (1970's). Back then I don't remember hearing about that ethanol crap. Also we live in a capitalist society which means if a business can screw the customer they will. Minimizing costs and maximizing profits is what it is all about. Anyone buy a candy bar lately ?? Smaller and a higher price right ?? Anyone buy a bag of chips ?? The fuel today is not the same. The proof is all of the threads posted here on melted pistons and blown engines. We can argue it all day but why is it when a guy melts pistons and then just changes fuel (and nothing else) and then suddenly it's good ??
AVGAS amen.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:39 pm
Posts: 682
Location: Sacramento
canadian oddy wrote:
Thanks for all those who voted.
It looks like it's 50/50 and that's what I wanted to know. It may be early as others will still vote but that gives me some kind idea on who uses what.
Basically I wanted to know if I was one of the very few people who run better fuel than pump gas. I wanted to know because it does come up in threads when we talk about fuel.
It's my honest belief that oddy's need better fuel than what is being provided today at the pumps. These machines were made after in the stone age (1970's). Back then I don't remember hearing about that ethanol crap. Also we live in a capitalist society which means if a business can screw the customer they will. Minimizing costs and maximizing profits is what it is all about. Anyone buy a candy bar lately ?? Smaller and a higher price right ?? Anyone buy a bag of chips ?? The fuel today is not the same. The proof is all of the threads posted here on melted pistons and blown engines. We can argue it all day but why is it when a guy melts pistons and then just changes fuel (and nothing else) and then suddenly it's good ??
AVGAS amen.


So far got a couple days on new top end with 50/50 mix and no top end seizure. Thanks for all your contributions CO!


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
jetting plays a large part in everything..i know that i am fat on the bottom end and lean on the top end..so i just never hold it wide open for to long...i need to buy some bigger jets and some spark plugs and get it dialled in.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I am going to confine this next bit to the FL350 and it may derail this thread a bit but so be it.
Honda had many recalls on the FL350. To the best of my knowledge they added side scoops and then recalled the side scoops (made them bigger), transmission (I don't know what they did there), counter balancer oil level (because of the oil in starter issue) and the piston in the Engine. The Engine originally had a different size piston. Apparently the engines got hot and I presume melted the pistons. This Engine also has a very large squish band (.120) I think. The head gasket has three layers. Apparently the optimum should be .050 squish. Any tighter than that an you would be running higher octane fuel from what I understand. Also note that the FL350 has the sparkplug hole angled and off to one side and the FL400 has the sparkplug dead center.
I am by no means an Engine expert. Someone like Adnoh will bury my azz in the theory department.
But at this point I am beginning to wonder if Honda really boo boo'd on the theory of this Engine. Case in point the .120 squish for one. Also all of the other recalls, the non existent rear suspension (springs WAY to stiff) and finally putting an air cooled Engine right behind a seat. That's just so stupid to me. So they only made this machine for one year and gave up on it. They waited four years before they came out with another machine with working rear suspension and a liquid cooled Engine.
So at this point I think they boo boo'd in the fuel octane requirements too. JMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
The FL350 Ody came from the factory with side scoops, the FL250 didn't.

The recall changed the following.....

1.) Bigger upper air scoops. Note the cheap rivets which aren't painted on your scoops!
2.) Reduction in displacement from 350cc's down to 330cc's.
3.) An increase in the squish band. Not sure of the actual change dimensions.
4.) The head was changed from a straight fin to the angled fin.
5.) For the transmission I believe they changed the AB gear so that it wouldn't change gears from forward to reverse as easy. People were actually running them in reverse and then throwing them into forward so they would do wheelies! This destroyed many a transmission!

Most of the problems with the Ody was due to overheating which caused seizures. All this because Honda's engineers had the brilliant idea of putting an air cooled Engine in an area that has shitty air flow. It worked OK on the FL250 but even that Engine ran way too hot. Wat back in 1977 (yes I'm old) I actually added a heat shield and side deflectors to my FL250 that I used to race flat track and it made a big difference!

The engineers got a lot of stuff wrong. If you don't know your machine like the back of your hand and don't set it up with the correct jetting..... as Hoser puts it POOF KABOOM! The shitty ethanol laden fuel doesn't help either. My Ody is jetted for sea level and I usually run it at around 5000 feet in elevation. But I still run 91 octane pump gas.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:11 am
Posts: 71
I will weigh in just for fun. I will say that I have NEVER driven a stock FL350 except for a magazine test. But octane is octane. Higher test gas, be it AV gas, race gas, 92 pump gas, etc, will only help you if your motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) needs it. In really simple terms, octane just helps keeping the gas from exploding too easily. The higher the compression, the more easily the gas wants to explode. So you need higher octane to keep it from doing this too early. Early detonation causes the dreaded ping and the eventual hole in the piston. Typically, octane will not do anything to keep it from seizing. That is something else altogether. (jetting, piston clearance, and oil). Typically, if your motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is getting really hot, you will seize it before you hole a piston. So if your motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) does not need the extra octane, the extra octane does not do anything for you. In fact, in specific technical terms, it will decrease your performance. But it will be so small you could never find that.

But here is the problem that all of you are fighting. You may not know exactly what your motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) needs, therefore running AV gas will be protection against the unknown. I have no idea what compression a stock 350 runs. We used to run up to 200 PSI on VP or Trick race gas. Around 150 will last on 87 octane. But timing and other motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) design things also impact predetonation.

Oh yeah, all of this is based on sea level. Altitude will decrease the compression. And NEVER use octane booster. It does virtually nothing. We were short on race gas one night at a local track. So we used 92 octane in my race FL250 flat track car with that 104+ crap. My buddy was driving that car. I was messing around and following him on a flat track in my stadium car. I saw first hand the problem when it holed a piston and my own car shot molten aluminum out the pipe directly at my googles! (then I almost ran over my own car!)

So bottom line, anything over what you need is a waste of money. I laugh at people putting premium gas in their passenger cars so they will get better performance. It will not help unless their car specifically wants it, and has sensors and systems to increase the timing to take advantage of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Who runs Avgas
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Hey superlite_Don ------ I got a pdf file of the 1985 Dirt Wheels Magazine of you in the FL350 and the Phantom doing the tests.
I tried to attach it here but the file is to big. It's over 10MB and our limit is 4MB. Damn.
That's the story I remember reading and I wanted one real bad. But the oddy was $3500 at the time and the new Kawasaki 250KX tecate three wheeler was half that price. So I bought the Kawi.
At the time I had just won two championships and held two track records in sports car racing. I had qualified to go the Nationals at mid Ohio in the USA. Couldn't go because we had no money left. I was 25 years old and a psychopath behind the wheel of a car. I was invincible and even god couldn't defeat me. AHH the invincibility of youth.


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