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 Post subject: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
Guys,

I can feel small play when I grab the clutch and move it up n down. Crank bearing? I also think this will be where I am introducing air as my FL350 get's lean at 1/2 to WOT (Wide Open Throttle). I built myself a leak tester to verify leaks but wanted to know your opinions.

I am assuming the Engine needs to come out.

Thoughts?

Leo


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
MPDano wrote:
Guys,

I can feel small play when I grab the clutch and move it up n down. Crank bearing? I also think this will be where I am introducing air as my FL350 get's lean at 1/2 to WOT (Wide Open Throttle) (Wide Open Throttle). I built myself a leak tester to verify leaks but wanted to know your opinions.

I am assuming the Engine needs to come out.

Thoughts?

Leo


That may or may not be the case.
You need to verify that the clutch is on tight. Use a torque wrench. A 1/2' impact is only good to just get it on and then you MUST torque it. If everything kosher then do the leak down. You shouldn't have any play though.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
The play could be several things, all of which are no good.
Could be:
1) Clutch not tight
2) Clutch was loose and crap got between tapers
3) Bearing gone
4) Crankcase housing pounded out (rare)

My opinion says pull it if you have time.
You could do it all in place though.
I would remove clutch in place and verify clean tapers.
Try to move crank by hand. Did it move ?? If yes then you gota pull it. If no -----
Re-install and torque clutch on, does it move ??

Leak down test if the above is ok


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
If you gota dial indicator put it on the crank when you are trying to move it.
The problem is that the Engine is in rubber mounts so the magnetic base for the dial will have to be located on the Engine itself some how. When you are set up push up on the crank by hand. You will get some deflection because of bearing clearance. Most bearings are a C3. So I am thinking about three or four thou -- .003 or .004 -- on the dial.
If your getting like .010 then I would pull it. Anything over .005 I don't think is good.
I must admit that I have never done this. I just pull my engines apart for the slightest reason because I like too.
You must enjoy this hobby or your done.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
Yeah, I have never done a bottom end before. Multiple top ends on both 2 and 4 strokes. I would think the bearing is pressed onto the halves from the inside, correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
MPDano wrote:
Yeah, I have never done a bottom end before. Multiple top ends on both 2 and 4 strokes. I would think the bearing is pressed onto the halves from the inside, correct?


Sort of.
I put mine on the crank first. Then freeze crank in the freezer overnight. Should fall together the next day. If not you can heat casings "slightly" with a propane torch.
DON'T MELT THE FN SEALS. I SAID: "SLIGHTLY"


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Check the end play of the crank by pulling in and out on it horizontally. If you have any detectable movement by hand, the bearings need to be replaced.

The bearings are a slip fit into the crankcase, do not attempt to press them in. The bearings are to be placed onto the crankshaft first using heat differential between the crankshaft assembly and the bearings. The crankshaft assembly is slid into the cases the same way.

I freeze my cranks in the freezer for a couple of hours and I set my bearings and the cases in front of a halogen light. The halogen light gets hot enough to expand the bearings and drop right onto the crank journals.

Freeze the entire assembly again and heat the cases with the halogen light. The case will get hot but not hot enough to effect the seals.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
Great tips guys. I also found a thread to help me in my disassembly, assembly. viewtopic.php?f=26&t=13605

Leo


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
Randman,

I feel play (in/out), about 1/16" on both clutch and driven pulleys. Bearings?

Leo


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
MPDano wrote:
Randman,

I feel play (in/out), about 1/16" on both clutch and driven pulleys. Bearings?

Leo

Leo,

Yes, it's time for new bearings. As far as bearings go, that is a considerable amount of wear and way past replacement time.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Randman wrote:
MPDano wrote:
Randman,

I feel play (in/out), about 1/16" on both clutch and driven pulleys. Bearings?

Leo

Leo,

Yes, it's time for new bearings. As far as bearings go, that is a considerable amount of wear and way past replacement time.

Rand


I second that.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
Ughhhhhh, lol. Was hoping not to have to tear into it any further than I did. Gonna pull the clutch once I get the puller tool or make one as well as the stator cover and run a leak test to see where this leak is coming from first


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
Pretty much know where my leak was. Besides the clutch side crank seal being original, the stator side seal was loose and was able to pull it off using a small pick.

Also, was able to finally inspect my Salsbury clutch and noticed one of the pieces above the roller was missing, the other two were still there.

I am going to replace the 2 crank seals and then do a leak down as no use trying with that loose seal. Also, noticed very little play when tugging on the crank shaft.

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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well -- where to start here.
1) Looking at the rust on that shaft I bet that clutch was not on there properly
2) Just doing those two seals may be a waste of money if the double lip seal inside the counter balancer area is shot as well, it won't pass the leak down test if it is shot
3) I see oil in that stator side housing. That tells me vent mod is not done so I would be inspecting the starter real close since it probably got oiled up. If you do the complete tear down (I suggest that) then do the vent mod. In fact you could do the vent mod without a tear down if you want but I don't like the fact that you wont be replacing the double lip seal
4) That Salsbury clutch may be an issue getting parts. I got a used unit from a member here and it took both units to make one functioning one. Get a 94c if you have the money. You will have to take that unit apart to fix it anyway and I think you may find more issues inside


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
canadian oddy wrote:
Well -- where to start here.
1) Looking at the rust on that shaft I bet that clutch was not on there properly
2) Just doing those two seals may be a waste of money if the double lip seal inside the counter balancer area is shot as well, it won't pass the leak down test if it is shot
3) I see oil in that stator side housing. That tells me vent mod is not done so I would be inspecting the starter real close since it probably got oiled up. If you do the complete tear down (I suggest that) then do the vent mod. In fact you could do the vent mod without a tear down if you want but I don't like the fact that you wont be replacing the double lip seal
4) That Salsbury clutch may be an issue getting parts. I got a used unit from a member here and it took both units to make one functioning one. Get a 94c if you have the money. You will have to take that unit apart to fix it anyway and I think you may find more issues inside


Thanks man. If you remember my resto thread, I R&R'd that stator. That little bit of oil was just from the short runs I have been doing. I am thinking of threading that hole and putting a barbed fitting and run the tube outside of the stator cover.

Yup, that's exactly what I am going to do is find a parts Salsbury and Frankenstein it. Don't got over $200 on a Comet clutch. I might in the future and now that I got the Salsbury puller tool, it will be easy to do later.

Honestly really don't want to tear it down right now. I will if the leak test fails with new crank seals.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
MPDano wrote:
Thanks man. If you remember my resto thread, I R&R'd that stator. That little bit of oil was just from the short runs I have been doing. I am thinking of threading that hole and putting a barbed fitting and run the tube outside of the stator cover.

Honestly really don't want to tear it down right now. I will if the leak test fails with new crank seals.


Ooooh don't do that. Your counter balancer oil will be all over the trails instead of in your Engine. You must do the conventional thing here and have a bellows on the end. Unless I am mis-reading your intentions here.

Crank seals -- sounds reasonable


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Do the vent mod the easy way!

Thread one of these white whales into the dip stick hole, attach a 3/8" Id hose to it about a foot long and put a Can Am Outlander differential bellows on the other end of the hose your done!

Don't forget to close off the hole behind the stator!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fitting-Metric ... 1438.l2649

Rand

P.S. If you have any detectable crank movement replace the crank bearings! Save your money for the whole job and do it once not twice!


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
canadian oddy wrote:
MPDano wrote:
Thanks man. If you remember my resto thread, I R&R'd that stator. That little bit of oil was just from the short runs I have been doing. I am thinking of threading that hole and putting a barbed fitting and run the tube outside of the stator cover.

Honestly really don't want to tear it down right now. I will if the leak test fails with new crank seals.


Ooooh don't do that. Your counter balancer oil will be all over the trails instead of in your Engine. You must do the conventional thing here and have a bellows on the end. Unless I am mis-reading your intentions here.

Crank seals -- sounds reasonable


I'm with you bro.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
Randman wrote:
Do the vent mod the easy way!

Thread one of these white whales into the dip stick hole, attach a 3/8" Id hose to it about a foot long and put a Can Am Outlander differential bellows on the other end of the hose your done!

Don't forget to close off the hole behind the stator!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fitting-Metric ... 1438.l2649

Rand

P.S. If you have any detectable crank movement replace the crank bearings! Save your money for the whole job and do it once not twice!


Thanks for the link and pic.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
MPDano wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
MPDano wrote:
Thanks man. If you remember my resto thread, I R&R'd that stator. That little bit of oil was just from the short runs I have been doing. I am thinking of threading that hole and putting a barbed fitting and run the tube outside of the stator cover.

Honestly really don't want to tear it down right now. I will if the leak test fails with new crank seals.


Ooooh don't do that. Your counter balancer oil will be all over the trails instead of in your Engine. You must do the conventional thing here and have a bellows on the end. Unless I am mis-reading your intentions here.

Crank seals -- sounds reasonable


I'm with you bro.


Check out Rands idea.
I think his is the easiest and best so far that does not require a lot of work.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
Added that bellows to my ebay cart as well as that adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAN-AM-OEM-FRO ... 50&vxp=mtr


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
MPDano wrote:
Added that bellows to my ebay cart as well as that adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAN-AM-OEM-FRO ... 50&vxp=mtr


There ya go big time


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
Ordered the seals and the mod pieces for the breather.

Took the Salsbury clutch apart. Kind of a explosion using my puller and impact to open it up, lol. Anyways, doesn't look too bad. Just missing a lever (pawl), lever shaft and the one piece holding the lever broke. Need to source just those parts, hopefully.

Should I even bother going for a higher rpm engagement spring or just stick to stock?

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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
MPDano wrote:
Took the Salsbury clutch apart. Kind of a explosion using my puller and impact to open it up, lol.


:shock: It should just fall apart when you remove the big outer nut/bolt.


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 Post subject: Re: Crank Bearings?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:31 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Diego, California
canadian oddy wrote:
MPDano wrote:
Took the Salsbury clutch apart. Kind of a explosion using my puller and impact to open it up, lol.


:shock: It should just fall apart when you remove the big outer nut/bolt.


It didnt for me. You got those spare parts you might want to part with?


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