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 Post subject: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:57 pm
Posts: 7
Hi
Got a fl250 I'm restoring and was converting it from points to CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) and I failed to find what it actually was that excites the stator, does anyone have an idea where and what it is that excites the stator? We've got a couple of old Odyssey engines laying around and I couldn't find on any of them what it is that excites them to spark
Cheers for any help


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Welcome new guy.
Take the time to read this thread as there are some helpful tips and on how to search on this site: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17351&hilit=FL250+stator


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I also don't recall reading anything on here about that issue but I am searching for you. If I find anything I will post it here.


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Check out this post starting at about half way down, comments made by adnoh.
Member adnoh is our local propeller head. He knows electrical and Engine theory.
I hope it helps you out.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16643&hilit=FL250+stator


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Here is another real good one with a youtube video as well.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9953


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
What year is your machine ??
Some helpful info I have on file:
First Generation FL250 (1977 - 1980)
The first generation Honda Odyssey can be identified by the yellow body with the black roll bar and no front bumper. Lack of suspension in the rear caused problems with stress cracks in the frame and handling in rough terrain. Heating issues were also an issue with this model. In 1980 the head light was moved from the front rack to the top of the roll bar and the 6 volt system was changed to a 12 volt system. Options included a rear tote rack, chevron pattern tires, and trailer hitch.
Second Generation FL250 (1981 - 1984)
In 1981 the second generation Honda Odyssey was introduced. Although mechanically identical to the first generation, Honda changed the look of the Odyssey by changing the colors to Honda Red and adding a full cage roll-bar. Other improvements included improved shoulder harness padding, 60 watt rectangular headlight mounted high on the roll-bar, improved water resistance in the torque converter, larger capacity fuel filter, capacitor ignition(CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition)), roll bar mounted air intake, and redesigned steering geometry allowing larger front shock absorbers and tighter turning radius.

Use these serial number ID's to figure out the year of your machine:
VIN Identification FL250
Honda used an independent VIN system of their own design for FL250 Odysseys and the following is their breakdown by year.
• 1977: FL250*1000001 – 1011921
• 1978: FL250*1100001 – 1112345
• 1979: FL250*2000001 – 2012620
• 1980: TB04*2000001 – 2006315
• 1981: TB040*BC400001 – BC406324
• 1982: TB040*CC500001 – CC514700
• 1983: TB040*DC600001 – DC617555
• 1984: TB040*EC700051 – EC703225


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:06 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 4:37 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Philadelphia, PA
# 1 is the exciter coil. #2 is the pulse/trigger coil. #3 is the lighting coil. They are all set on the case, and the magnet rotates with the crank. The magnets cause the coils to produce energy, and in the case of the pulse coil, trigger the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) unit to discharge the energy produced by the exciter coil and amplified by the ignition coil. The lighting coil just makes power for your lights. To switch over, you need this plate, the magnet, the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) unit, and a wiring harness. The points harness have different wires, and no provision for the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
So if he had the "FL350" flywheel, stator etc plate, wiring harness, CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) then he could just bolt it all up, and it will run ??

If so then I would just try an Engine swap. Not worth it.

From what I have read so far on this issue, it's dirt and metal filings that cause issues with the points system.


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:44 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 4:37 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Philadelphia, PA
From what i understand, he is trying to convert a FL250 from points to CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (a popular mod, as it is considered way more reliable then the points). The FL350 parts would probably not work, as the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) sets the timing, and most likely has a different timing curve set (i believe anything can be made to work, but would not be worth the time, energy or expense here to make that happen).


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
So then that brings me to my next question ------- where does he get a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) from that is usable for that timing curve ??


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:03 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 4:37 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Philadelphia, PA
ODD atv sells a parts kit. I bought one of his harness's for a rebuild on one of mine. Of course, he could make his own. The FL250 stator plates are had to find, but they are out there. You could get one off of ebay, but you will be hit or miss on the coils. Ricky Stator can re-wind them, you can re-wind them yourself if you have the right wire, or you can buy replacments ( i have bought a few from ODD atv as well). The coils are actually quite common, and the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) units can also be found on ebay. I think they are the same as some of the early 3 Wheeler units, as it appears similar to those used in the ATC110 from 80-83, but i am not 100% on that. The coils can be checked with a multi meter. Of course, the manual says to use a tester that is harder to find then the parts.


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:57 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks for all the help guys. Its a first gen 78' I think. I've got all the parts needed for the conversion but just can't find where the stator gets its signal from on the shaft to create the spark. If I couldn't find anything I was just going to throw it together and hope it runs on a bit of Honda magic haha


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:09 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 4:37 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Well, #2 in the picture is the pulse coil, and the wire leading from it is blue. It goes to the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), which triggers the ignition coil. Did this answer your question, or do you need more info?


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:01 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:57 pm
Posts: 7
Should there be a timing mark or something that triggers the pulse coil?


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 4:37 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Philadelphia, PA
There is a timing mark, but timing is not (normaly) adjustable. The stator plate screws in, and the rest of the timing is mapped out in the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) unit. Adjusting timing can be done, but isnt usually necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:57 pm
Posts: 7
So I've got the points and CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) flywheel and on the old points there is a timing mark where it is slightly thicker which would then trigger the stator as it goes around. On the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) flywheel it's a lot shorter and there's no mark or thickness difference I can see that triggers it. I threw it together and tested it in case there was something I missed but I didn't get a spark so I'm sure I've got something missing but don't know what. This is me first project I'm doing getting into ATV and motors and that and any help would be great thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I can't really help you on the FL250 because I never owned one but I did have motorcycles with points when I was a kid.
You seem really hung up on that timing mark thing. I seems to be stuck in your mind and won't leave. I suggest you call the ESP cops and evict that thought because everything has it's place. The flywheel has a key that keeps the flywheel in it's position. The magnets are glued onto the flywheel and can't be adjusted. The pick up coil is bolted to the housing and is in a fixed position. See what I am getting at ??
The only thing you can do with a points system is gap the points. The only thing you can do with a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) system is nothing.
The pulse coil will trigger when the magnets swing by.
I feel the bigger problem here is cleaning everything up real nice and start from scratch. I see a lot of rust and poo around so how can you even see anything like a timing mark.


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Here is something that might help you understand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yK3Opq_i0M
When you watch that you just have to keep in mind that the oddy's don't have a separate pulse rotor. The flywheel magnets swinging by triggers it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I wish I could help you more but someone with more FL250 points experience needs to chime in.


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:57 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks for the help ay. If I find what I'm missing I'll let you know what it was. Those two that I took a picture of were just other sets we had laying around. The one I used i cleaned it till it was spotless


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:57 pm
Posts: 7
So I think I found the answer to my question aha. After ages of inspecting the flywheel and stator I found that the trigger coil isn't insulated from the frame of the stator. So looking at the frame of the stator right next to the trigger coil there's a column that I believe detects a disturbance in the fields As it passes the points between the magnets in the flywheel. It wss the only thing close enough I could find that it could possibly pick up. I'm not sure if I make much sense aha but yeah. As it passes these points the pulse coil picks it up from that column and 'pulses' everytime it goes past them.
On a side note I got it thrown together finally and had it running for maybe 2 seconds if I was lucky, turned out the head I cleaned up had the thread stripped for the spark plug so I put a little glue on it hoping it might hold for a bit but it blew clean out tearing out what was left of the thread hahaha. So now I just gotta see if I can find some helicoils for it...


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 Post subject: Re: Fl250 spark?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Just to let you know --- there is 750 psi pressure in the combustion chamber when the sparkplug fires.
I don't think a little glue will hold LOL.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15724&hilit=combustion+chamber


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