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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Hello all, I'm trying to finish up a 350 top end rebuild and since I had the Engine pulled I decided to go ahead and replace the crank seals. I ordered the seals from Oddatv and after I got them in and pressure tested the Engine I have a small air leak between the clutch side double lip seal where it meets the metal spacer that slides over the crank. The enging will hold vacuum just fine but leaks around the inside of that seal when I switch to pressure. Any suggestions?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
dnpittma wrote:
Hello all, I'm trying to finish up a 350 top end rebuild and since I had the Engine pulled I decided to go ahead and replace the crank seals. I ordered the seals from Oddatv and after I got them in and pressure tested the Engine I have a small air leak between the clutch side double lip seal where it meets the metal spacer that slides over the crank. The enging will hold vacuum just fine but leaks around the inside of that seal when I switch to pressure. Any suggestions?


Does that steel sleeve have grooves worn in it ??
I have not seen anyone post about this issue yet.
Are you sure the o-ring is still on that steel sleeve that slides over the crank ?? I know you said it leaks where seal fits on that sleeve but just want to confirm it is not leaking at crank, because that would be the o-ring.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
If it is leaking under pressure then what will happen is the oil in the counter balancer area could be blown over to the stator side (where this system is vented) and fill the starter and stator with oil. If you have done the vent mod then it will pressure up the bellows.
I have noticed on two occasions where my brothers machine would have a swollen bellows (but only slightly). It has only happened twice. Basically if you have the vent mod done and you have a swollen bellows after a ride, then that is an indication of a double lip failure. I think it does happen on a rare occasion but if it is consistent then this is a warning to change the seal.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:56 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
dnpittma wrote:
Hello all, I'm trying to finish up a 350 top end rebuild and since I had the Engine pulled I decided to go ahead and replace the crank seals. I ordered the seals from Oddatv and after I got them in and pressure tested the Engine I have a small air leak between the clutch side double lip seal where it meets the metal spacer that slides over the crank. The enging will hold vacuum just fine but leaks around the inside of that seal when I switch to pressure. Any suggestions?


Does that steel sleeve have grooves worn in it ??
I have not seen anyone post about this issue yet.
Are you sure the o-ring is still on that steel sleeve that slides over the crank ?? I know you said it leaks where seal fits on that sleeve but just want to confirm it is not leaking at crank, because that would be the o-ring.


Thanks for the quick reply CO. I actually feel honored to chat with you here, I think I've just about read everything you and some of the others have contributed to this site and certainly have learned alot. Much appreciated! I don't see or feel any grooves in steel spacer but I did replace the oring on the back side of the spacer so that should be good. At first I thought it was because I hadn't put the drive gear or nut on yet but even after that was installed and torqued it still seeps some air when pressurized.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
My next question is: How do you know it is leaking there ??
You can't see it when Engine is together, so how did you confirm this ??

Looks like I posted this to quick. I just read your reply above and it answers my questions.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Did you lube that seal and spacer with oil ??
I would put a bit of lube on it and spin the crank around a bit by hand. Then do the pressure test again and see what happens. The gears must be torqued on to do a test though.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:04 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
My next question is: How do you know it is leaking there ??
You can't see it when Engine is together, so how did you confirm this ??


The Engine is on the bench with the covers off. I plugged the intake and exhaust and am using a Mitvac hand pump for pressure and vacuum using the fuel pump pulse line. I've sprayed all the exposed areas with soap and water and used WD40 on the clutch side crank seal to find the leak.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:05 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
Did you lube that seal and spacer with oil ??
I would put a bit of lube on it and spin the crank around a bit by hand. Then do the pressure test again and see what happens. The gears must be torqued on to do a test though.

I used some white lithium grease on the inside of the seal.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:21 pm 
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I am doing the vent mod along with the rest of it. I'm new to the odyssey and when I picked it up it was in pretty rough shape. So far I've done the top end, rebuilt the master cylinder and the starter, gone through the carburetor, and acquired some stock parts including exhaust, airbox, etc. I wanted to get it back to stock as best I can.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:24 pm 
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canadian oddy wrote:
Did you lube that seal and spacer with oil ??
I would put a bit of lube on it and spin the crank around a bit by hand. Then do the pressure test again and see what happens. The gears must be torqued on to do a test though.

I'll give that a try tonight and report back. Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
dnpittma wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Did you lube that seal and spacer with oil ??
I would put a bit of lube on it and spin the crank around a bit by hand. Then do the pressure test again and see what happens. The gears must be torqued on to do a test though.

I'll give that a try tonight and report back. Thanks


Yeah I am not really sure what to suggest on this issue right at the moment. It seems weird that is will hold vacuum and not pressure. I guess the vacuum is pulling the seal onto the shaft and the pressure is lifting it. So that sounds like the seal spring may not be as snug as needed but I find that hard to believe at this point. I remember when I was a teenager a local dirt bike rider and B.C junior MX champion would remove the spring on the fork seals and cut it about an 1/8" shorter and then hook the ends together again. He said it was to put more pressure on the seal. I am NOT recommending this for this issue, just to be clear here. I just don't know what to suggest at this point. I have to think about it.
Anyone else got an idea here ??


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:29 pm 
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I wonder how much pressure is actually created in the crankcase? My thinking is since the crank is continually switching between pressure and vacuum that this small pressure leak might not be a big issue. It holds vacuum so I wouldn't have to worry about leaning out the mixture. I tried lubricating the seal and turning by hand but got the same results. I'm seriously considering putting it all back together and running with it. Opinions?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Well, I pressure checked it again today and it's holding pretty well. I'm going to call that a pass. I'm not sure what changed but I'll take it. Thanks CO and have a merry Christmas


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:24 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
dnpittma wrote:
I wonder how much pressure is actually created in the crankcase? My thinking is since the crank is continually switching between pressure and vacuum that this small pressure leak might not be a big issue. It holds vacuum so I wouldn't have to worry about leaning out the mixture. I tried lubricating the seal and turning by hand but got the same results. I'm seriously considering putting it all back together and running with it. Opinions?


I am not sure if I like that. I do have a couple of questions though.
1) How much pressure are you using ??
2) What is your pressure loss of a given time ??

Edit: Are you sure you didn't deep set or shallow set the new seal ??

Edit again: Basically I don't like the leak because what happens is the oil/fuel mix gets into the counter balancer area. By the way you can tell if your double lip seal is shot just by looking at your counter balancer oil. If it is black instead of being clear and clean then you know the seal is by passing oil/fuel mix and contaminating the counter balancer oil. It's a very good indicator.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:01 am 
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canadian oddy wrote:
dnpittma wrote:
I wonder how much pressure is actually created in the crankcase? My thinking is since the crank is continually switching between pressure and vacuum that this small pressure leak might not be a big issue. It holds vacuum so I wouldn't have to worry about leaning out the mixture. I tried lubricating the seal and turning by hand but got the same results. I'm seriously considering putting it all back together and running with it. Opinions?


I am not sure if I like that. I do have a couple of questions though.
1) How much pressure are you using ??
2) What is your pressure loss of a given time ??

Edit: Are you sure you didn't deep set or shallow set the new seal ??

Edit again: Basically I don't like the leak because what happens is the oil/fuel mix gets into the counter balancer area. By the way you can tell if your double lip seal is shot just by looking at your counter balancer oil. If it is black instead of being clear and clean then you know the seal is by passing oil/fuel mix and contaminating the counter balancer oil. It's a very good indicator.

I was using 6 pounds and today the pressure only dropped about 1/2 a pound in 15 minutes. I set the seal flush with the crankcase which I believe I read was correct. Thanks for the tip on the counter balancer oil.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:38 am 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Half a pound in 15 minutes is more than acceptable as far as I am concerned. It will run.


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