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Comet 102c questions
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17908		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  CurtisR401 [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Comet 102c questions
So I opened up my comet 102c clutch today to take a look inside and install a dust cover on it. Just curious with the go to spring is for these on a FL350 application.

The spring that is in it now is purple.

The arms are in good condition and show little to no wear.

Anything else I should be checking on it? I don’t know much about these clutches so any useful information is appreciated.

Thanks, Curtis
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
This thread might help as it gives spring and cam pdf charts.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17277
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
Here is another good thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11615&hilit=dust+cover+John+Deere+part+number+M64612

Check out Nuke em's comments.

Also look directly below this thread for 102c stuff to read.
Author:  CurtisR401 [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
Thanks CO, I’ll give it a read.
Author:  CurtisR401 [ Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
Alright, I looked closer at the arms and they are the N-1 45.5 gram.

oleskool stated in that thread...

"So the lighter the weights in there the higher RPM grab the heavier the weight the lower.
The 2 carts on here are all the spring and weight specs they have.

EXP-102c with 45.5g weights with pink spring will engage at 3150RPM
102c with 45.5g weights with a purple spring will engage at 4500RPM"

I'm going to run with this setup for now and see how I like it. The pink spring is $20 and the cam arms are $15 each = $45 if I choose to change it up.

Now my curiosity has got the best of me....

In addition to the cam arms having different weights, some have different shapes as well. Does this have any effect?

The next available cam arm in the PDF is the "Q" cam arm, 56.9 grams. Is there a way to calculate what RPM this are would engage at?

Anyone out there using the heel clickers or similar adjustable shift kits? I could have some fun playing around with those, if I had the time.
Author:  FloridaEdd [ Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
I run heel clickers on my Dakart. I like them. It's a arctic cat clutch.
The different shaped weights have the weight distributed differently. This effects the shift characistics of the clutch.

That's it for my knowledge,I'm still figuring it all out
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
CurtisR401 wrote:
Now my curiosity has got the best of me....

In addition to the cam arms having different weights, some have different shapes as well. Does this have any effect?


Yes.
I believe the steep angle of a cam arm causes it to start grabbing at a much lower rpm.
This is an issue as your belt contact patch is much much smaller at idle than when it is spun up.
Steeper angles upshift faster which lowers RPM and smaller angles upshift slower which raises RPM.
Two arms that weigh the same but have different profiles will act different.
That is all I know about this based on what I have read. I have no personal experience with this because all I wana do is ride. I'm not racing for a championship anymore.

Below is a good pdf which explains this stuff very well. It is a good read. It was taken from a sled forum that I found, and even though it is about sleds the concepts are the same.

Attachments:
Clutch operation explained in plain english.pdf [500.54 KiB]
Downloaded 202 times
Author:  CurtisR401 [ Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
That was a good read CO thanks for sharing.

I ended up purchasing a heavy hitter shift kit today from site member scpilot66. When I have the time I will install it and try my hand at tuning it.
Author:  FloridaEdd [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
I found tuning my clutch was a lot easier with a tachometer. It allowed me to see exactly what was going on with the clutch,specifically where it is shifting out at.
Edit. Disregard the above. I was thinking of adjustable weights.
Author:  MGurgone40 [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
I have a 102 comet clutch I have purchased and never installed because I do ride some tighter trails on occasion. Do you suggest not installing if I do ride some tighter trails? Also anyone have some idea where I can get my hands on these adjustable weights to use with this clutch? Are the weights specific for the odyssey, or is there a new part #? Thanks
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
CurtisR401 just bought a heavy hitter shift kit from site member scpilot66. So I would say scpilot66 would know. I would try giving these guys a phone call: https://thunderproducts.com/
They sell thunder shift and heavy hitter kits. Drop a dime and ask them. By the way the kits are over $200 usa.

I have a 102 on my machine. Got it from a friend. Just bolted it on and have no idea what is in it. I also ride in some tight spots and have no problems. Not sure what to suggest for you.
Author:  CurtisR401 [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
The part number on the thunder kit I purchased is: HH-350

I would reference that when you call them. The beauty of this clutch is that you can tune it to whatever your riding style is. The link that CO posted goes over all that. Included in my purchase was all the literature for tuning as well. Basically by installing weights in different 3 different locations on the cam arm will give you different results for hole shot, mid range, and top end. A tachometer is a must to do this properly.

Because my kit was purchased used someone had already installed the weights and done some leg work for me. I will see how it performs as is and then adjust accordingly.

Another cam arm kit would be the heel clicker.
Author:  MGurgone40 [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
Okay good info. Thanks CO and Curtis, I would love some additional feedback once you have some seat time Curtis. CO is super mechanically inclined, I’m mediocre at best - and If it’s gonna take a ton of set up work I may just re-sell it. Thanks again for the info, I’m going to spend some time now reading that link.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
Check out that part number ------- HH350 ------- that just screams FL350 to me.
I bet those people got set up sheets for the oddy. Probably just install and go.
Drop a dime.
Author:  CurtisR401 [ Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
MGurgone40 wrote:
Okay good info. Thanks CO and Curtis, I would love some additional feedback once you have some seat time Curtis. CO is super mechanically inclined, I’m mediocre at best - and If it’s gonna take a ton of set up work I may just re-sell it. Thanks again for the info, I’m going to spend some time now reading that link.


Check the color of the spring that came in the 102c that you have. Just by using a pink spring you may get the desired results. It will engage at around 3100rpm. You can pick up the pink spring for cheap money online. The shift kits are used more for a performance enhancement.

I will update with feedback when I get everything dialed in.

If you decide to sell it, send me a pm.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
MGurgone40 wrote:
and If it’s gonna take a ton of set up work I may just re-sell it.


Even though I have never done this myself, I think it is not going to be difficult.
Here are some quotes from that pdf I posted above.

Quote: Here’s how it works: Let’s say top end on your machine is meant to be 100 MPH,
meaning you are geared for 100 MPH. Simply divide your weight into imaginary thirds.
The first third controls the RPMs for 0-33MPH, second third controls RPMs for 33-
66MPH, and the final third controls RPMs for 66-100MPH.
You add or subtract weight to each section to make sure the Engine RPMs are
consistently at peak
and
it's time to go to your test area and begin tuning the clutch to match your horsepower and
weight. When making a test run, watch tach closely; it should stay at correct RPM from
start to finish

Now since an oddy only does 62 mph those thirds would be 0-20 20-40 40-60 mph.
Basically the way I read this is that you nail the throttle and it should hold the same rpm all the way to the end. If the tach moves off that rpm at any time before you get to the top speed then you would move the weights around at the spot where the rpm dropped or spiked. If I am wrong someone please correct me (so that I would know for sure how to do this too).
Three other comments are: 1) that I would start with what CurtisR401 said above about the spring and 2) I would do the testing on pavement. If you try this crap in the dirt, all you are going to do is spin the wheels. They don't tell you that in the pdf. 3) just going by the seat of my pants feel, you only got about 7 seconds to look at the tach before it's all over and your doing top speed. So do a count in your head as you watch the tach and if you see a rpm problem STOP counting. Remember the number and when you get back to the truck. Decide where that is bottom, mid range or top.
An even better way would be to mount your phone (camera mode) so it could read the tach and also a stop watch (mounted next to tach). Play it back and plot each second and tach reading on a graph paper.
Just my opinions.
Author:  FloridaEdd [ Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
Testing by feel is OK if u are seasoned at clutch tuning. For me the tac was like looking at the clutch itself and I know I'm repeating myself but it helped wrap my head around most of it.

I would also test it on the type of ground u will be running on. Soft sand takes different clutching then hard pack ect.
Author:  MGurgone40 [ Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
Okay sounds simple enough, I’m willing to give that a try, thanks all for the help.
Author:  CurtisR401 [ Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
Just to follow up on this, I spoke with a gentleman over at Thunder Products to purchase some new fasteners for my shift kit. I his words... "WOW that kit is 20 years old" (HH-350). He told me that that part number is no longer available but they can replicate the kit if anyone is interested. Reference that part number if you should call.
-Curtis
Author:  go oddy [ Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
CurtisR401 wrote:
Just to follow up on this, I spoke with a gentleman over at Thunder Products to purchase some new fasteners for my shift kit. I his words... "WOW that kit is 20 years old" (HH-350). He told me that that part number is no longer available but they can replicate the kit if anyone is interested. Reference that part number if you should call.
-Curtis


Nice work, this will be very helpful to a lot of people. Thanks for the information.
Author:  MGurgone40 [ Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Comet 102c questions
Thanks for the follow up! Good to know
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