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 Post subject: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
My brothers machine developed a real bad vibration.
I noticed it when I loaded it on the trailer on our last ride. This machine has not run for two years now and was running fine until we parked it. This is the machine with the super Engine (ported etc).
I also check my engines once a year (winter) and noticed this one had a very small leak from the crankcase to the counter balancer. This was found when it failed the test and the counter balancer oil was black as tar (mix oil contamination). I pulled this Engine tonight.

At first glance everything seems fine.
Crank turns great. Counter balancer spins great. No play felt in the bearings. LOTS of oil on the piston, intake and crankcase. We run 50/1 Castrol.
All I could see is some real fine sparkly in the counter balancer oil. You can't even feel it. My guess is Spalling. Not sure yet until I split the cases. If it is then it's probably the two stroke oil contaminating the HP4 oil.

The other thing I noticed was that both rear rubber Engine mounts were worn out.
I wonder if this was the issue with the bad vibration ??
Time will tell.


Attachments:
File comment: Lots of oil on piston and the skirt.
We run 50/1 Castrol.

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File comment: Counter balancer oil.
20190605_220828.jpg
20190605_220828.jpg [ 39.15 KiB | Viewed 1340 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Was the counterbalance oil extremely over filled? Possibly cause some type of cavitation issue?


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:33 am
Posts: 1070
Probably balance shaft bearing failure.

Also please stop using red RTV everywhere. I see it on a lot of pictures you post of cases being split open. Its no good for oil sealing cases. It has much too high a silica (sand) content and can roach your bearings WHEN pieces break off and pulverize within all your moving parts.

Use Threebond 1211, 1217, MotoSeal, or Yamabond instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
ZeroClient wrote:
Probably balance shaft bearing failure.

Also please stop using red RTV everywhere. I see it on a lot of pictures you post of cases being split open. Its no good for oil sealing cases. It has much too high a silica (sand) content and can roach your bearings WHEN pieces break off and pulverize within all your moving parts.

Use Threebond 1211, 1217, MotoSeal, or Yamabond instead.


Ever since I was a teen, silicone has served me well.
Now I am like a fat kid that loves carrot cake. Mommy told me carrots were good for you so now I think I am good to go to town on this cake.
I am not disputing what you are saying and you're not the first guy that has told me that on this site.
You are probably right but to get Yamabond or Threebond I would have to drive out of town to get it. I live in a small town with very limited options when buying stuff. Even our local machine shop closed a couple of years ago. Not much here anymore. Nearest town is 40 min drive from my house. Gas here is 1.50 per liter or $6 a USA gal. I think you can see my dilemma. The local NAPA has a lot of stuff. Silicone is everywhere on the shelf. Next time I am in the little city I will stop in at the Honda shop and see if they got any of those above.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1432
Location: Norco, CA
Honda has a similar product, it is called "Hondabond" go figure.


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
I always worried about it clogging an oil passage or something similar. In most cases, a proper gasket shouldn't need any RTV anyway. That being said, I've always used a little on the corners of the intake manifold gasket on a small block chevy.


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
I usually use copper coat on, a lite coat on the gaskets


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
you can get it in a spray or a tube


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Ok what tool do you use to get out the inside counter balancer bearing ??
Do you also have to heat up the case ??

All bearings seemed to be ok but I am going to change the counter balancer ones because of the metal flakes I saw in the oil.


Attachments:
20190606_231741.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
A blind bearing puller
Or an inner bearing puller


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well now that I am back from Vegas it's time to go to town on these machines.
I got parts all over the shop. I replaced the counter balancer bearings and ended up taking this Engine apart three times before I got it to seal and pass the pressure test. It now loses 2 lbs in 5 hrs :-) . That's good enough. Also found that two of the Engine mounts were worn bad. Will replace those. Just wondering if the vibration was due to the Engine mounts or something else. The bearings looked good when I took them out but there was metal flaking in the oil.
As for the death machine with the homemade head and welded piston that had the fuel supply issue, it too is still ripped apart.
I bought two brand new Polaris fuel pumps (not Chinese) and still had the fuel issue. I thought it was the cheap Chinese pumps but not sure now. F'd around with this before I went to Vegas. I did try the Chinese pumps on my machine as a test and they all failed. That's why I bought the high priced ones from Polaris. Also found broken reeds and when I went to take a set off of a spare Engine, those to were broken so ordered three sets of reeds from Boyesen yesterday. My hope is that it's the reeds but not confident in that theory. Time will tell.


Attachments:
20190703_093530.jpg
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20190703_093620.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Would the reeds effect the pulse?


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
liduno wrote:
Would the reeds effect the pulse?


There are two pulses.
One pressure and one vacuum.
If you're only getting one good one then you're only getting half volume on the pump.
Piston goes down and reeds open -- vacuum.
Piston goes up and reeds close -- pressure.

Maybe I am just out there :-) .
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Then it seems the reeds being the problem is a definite possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
liduno wrote:
Then it seems the reeds being the problem is a definite possibility.


If the reeds don't cure the issue then I am leaning towards that electric fuel pump TerryH talked about.
It seems like is would fit well to this project as the death machine is my experimental machine.
An electric pump seems like a novelty as I have not seen anyone here do it yet and post a ride report. I am kind of waiting on TerryH to do that.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
id defiantly say the reeds have a lot to do with the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Real bad vibration
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Rebuilding/topping up the oil on the rear shocks on my brothers machine.
Depending on the riding terrain and the amount of pitting on the shock shaft you have, topping up the oil in the rear shocks can be as frequent as topping up the fuel. I usually get a season out of mine before I have to do this. What I have found on mine is that if we bottom out the shock it'll leak by the seal. The seals are new on all of mine but there is still leakage under hard riding conditions. I try to set preload on the springs so this don't happen but on the last ride I had a big boy driving my brothers machine. My brother weighs about 135/140 lbs. Kyle weighs probably 200 lbs. The rear springs on these shocks are 135 lbs/in and I do have a preload spacer about 2" on it. Adjustment is set on max. It's just enough for my brothers weight but not Kyle's. It was the first time in an oddy and now he wants one. The kid is 25 and about to marry my buddies daughter (one of the many girls I used to baby sit). He's got a good job on the railway but they are both smart enough to know that they have to buy a house first. I think they went out looking today.


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