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 Post subject: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Any of you guys ever seen any of this kind of foolishness ??
This clutch was actually still working but I found it when I had to do the rebuild of my brothers Engine when the new electric fuel pump failed.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
I'm thinking you found that vibration.


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
liduno wrote:
I'm thinking you found that vibration.


I think you're right :-) .
Can't believe it didn't explode.
Probably why it also eat a belt on that ride.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Oh that's right! I forgot about the belt.


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Could be just me but I think I have had every catastrophic event you can possibly have with an oddy :-) .
Almost 60 yrs old and still coo coo.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2866
Location: East Peoria IL
I agree you are COO COO. :-) At least you know what went wrong. I believe that is the first break I have seen like that on a drive clutch. You have been through a great deal with your machines, but that is half the fun right?

Do you have another clutch? Don't tell me you plan on repairing it. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
rmesser wrote:
I agree you are COO COO. :-) At least you know what went wrong. I believe that is the first break I have seen like that on a drive clutch. You have been through a great deal with your machines, but that is half the fun right?

Do you have another clutch? Don't tell me you plan on repairing it. :shock:


Yeah I got a spare clutch that I refaced in the lathe.

I did look to see if I could get this part online but it doesn't seem to be out there.
If I can't get this piece then YES I am going to repair it. Will make a new one if I have too.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:53 am
Posts: 1432
Location: Norco, CA
is that the end of the crank showing in the second pic? if it is that is going to be a challenge getting that off. good luck


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Kuma wrote:
is that the end of the crank showing in the second pic? if it is that is going to be a challenge getting that off. good luck


No that's actually what is left of the shaft that broke. The crank is right behind that in the taper.
You are right though -- it will be a challenge to get that taper off the crank.
I do have an idea though :-) .
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2866
Location: East Peoria IL
Hang on - I'm waiting for the popcorn to finish.....

Video would be nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
rmesser wrote:
Hang on - I'm waiting for the popcorn to finish.....

Video would be nice.


Good thing I didn't make a video. Would have run out of film. It took a bit longer than I thought.
I tried using a muffler clamp and the puller-- it slipped ----- failure.
So then I made a collar and used a different puller --it slipped ---- failure.
Took the dog for a walk.
So then I tried the collar and the muffler clamp -- it broke the tie arm ---- failure.
Re-welded the arm back on the collar properly this time and tried again ---- success.

If this happens to you then you are going to need some tools.
Suggest you get a bag of popcorn and watch the local skillbilly do it.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Next really big challenge is going to be getting that broken threaded shaft out of the clutch.
A long time ago I tried to re-shim my 94c clutches and gave up. I couldn't get the shaft out of the aluminum clutch housing to do the re-shim.
I wanted to do this because there was a big gap between the shiv and the belt.
What you want is about .030" clearance NOT 1/8" or more.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Had some luck tonight.
I welded a bolt onto the exposed broken threads that were inside the shiv.
Then got on it with a wrench quick before it cooled down and seized the threads. The broken piece came out easy.
Also took some measurements of the shaft in a 94c if anyone is interested.
I would also like to say that the shaft should actually be a bit shorter because there is a big gap between the belt and the shivs. I am not to sure yet how much shorter it needs to be because you have to measure this. You can't shim this shaft because we need to go narrower to close up the gap and there were no more threads left to screw it down. It was bottomed out. You could set up this clutch to run a wider belt by adding shims but you can't go narrower.
It looks to be a 3/4" x 20 TPI thread. Body is slightly larger at .876 x 3 3/8" L.
So you take a .876 shaft and turn it down to 3/4" for the threaded area. Then you need to drill the hole for the bolt that holds the whole mess on the crank. I bet a guy can make this easy on the lathe with a piece of cold roll.
CO

EDIT: I would also like to add that the threaded portion of the shaft is 3/4" x 3/4" but the threaded portion of the clutch shiv is only 1/2" in length. So that means that there was a 1/4" of thread poking out the back end. This was probably so that you could shim it for a wider belt. So if you make a new shaft then the threads would have to be longer so you could narrow the gap between the shivs. Then you can trim the excess threads off so that they don't hit the crank when you are tightening down the clutch.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
You're good at breaking your machines, which means you learn to be good at fixing them..lol


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
liduno wrote:
You're good at breaking your machines, which means you learn to be good at fixing them..lol


It's FKN crazy --- I don't think there is a thing we haven't busted.
The sick part is that we just putt putt up the hills now since my accident. Luckily I got away with it.
No more high speed full throttle drifts into a blind corner. Just putt putt and we still bust shyt.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Some specialists might have more knowledge on a specific part or system on the fl350, but you have to be at the top of the list for over all knowledge, just because you've destroyed and fixed so many things on it..lol


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I got a few hours to work on this thing tonight.

In the first two pics you see I cut a piece of 7/8" cold rolled the same length as the old broken piece.

In the third pic you might notice that I use my thread bit upside down. This is done because my lathe does not have a lever you can pull so that the carriage runs the other way, so I have to run my machine in reverse to do that. At one time I owned a south bend lathe and it did have this feature. This one don't.
My machine also does not have a quick change gearbox. That means you have to change gears for every different thread pitch you want to cut.
When I cut threads I run my carriage toward the tail stock. This is done so that you don't screw up the piece you are cutting threads in. If you disengage the carriage at the wrong time or the handle sticks it's gona be a problem. If you do it my way you got all the time in the world to disengage the carriage. Also you don't accidentally run the carriage into the head. DO IT MY WAY.

In the fourth pic there is an extra piece laying there. That's because the first piece I fukdup. I put the thread gear on incorrectly and my machine then cut the threads a half pitch off. FFFFFF. Had to start over. This is the draw back of my comment above about my machine and the quick change gearbox. Sometimes you get it wrong F-ing around with gears.
Pretty sure someone like Meth would fire my azz :-) .

In the fifth pic I made sure the piece fit. Now I have to drill the hole and thread it for the pusher bolt when you remove the clutch. Also have to cut the flats for the outside shiv to fit on.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Not really sure what the end result will be for this clutch.
At the moment I am thinking about a total experimental.
Thinking about: homemade pucks --- white spring --- closing up the excessive gap between shivs and belt and possibly just running 6 pucks instead of the nine like I have in my 94c. This will bring the engagement to probably 4200 rpm approx according to my best guess. Not sure yet.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:51 pm
Posts: 816
Location: Palm Coast Florida
I feel your pain on the lathe, mine is over 100 years old. If I had to thread something that had a shoulder or was close to the chuck, I would only cut left handed threads..lol


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Well I finished the stem.
Made it a bit shorter than the original to close up the belt to shiv gap.
Then I had to make a shim because I made it to short LOL.
Will install the clutch tomorrow.
We go for a ride Friday. Report to follow.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2866
Location: East Peoria IL
Damn nice job cutting those threads!


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
will making the gap smaller not drop your engagement rpm..I think you want some clearance there so its not grabbing the belt all the time and trying to spin the belt. im sure it was designed like this for a reason. curious on how it works


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
fully wrote:
will making the gap smaller not drop your engagement rpm..I think you want some clearance there so its not grabbing the belt all the time and trying to spin the belt. im sure it was designed like this for a reason. curious on how it works


Yeah I am with you on that theory too.
This is just an experiment.
The way I was looking at it was that with the "correct" gap there is still some clearance so it won't turn the belt. Also there is now some preload on the spring so the rpm has to over come that first.
I am hoping this works out.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
FAILURE.
I just took it for a test run down the street.
When I put it in gear it jumped ahead and killed the Engine. The belt was turning the driven.
Re-started it, put it in gear and got right on the throttle. Launched well.
Need to take it all apart again and add some more shim. I don't see any gap between belt and shiv. Its close.
On a positive note it did hook up well and launch so our theory above does not apply.
Stay tuned.
CO


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 Post subject: Re: Broken clutch
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
liduno wrote:
I feel your pain on the lathe, mine is over 100 years old. If I had to thread something that had a shoulder or was close to the chuck, I would only cut left handed threads..lol


You can cut right hand threads if you turn your lathe bit upside down and run in reverse.
This then cuts a right hand thread with the cutter running toward the tail stock. No danger to hit the head or a shoulder.
That's what I did in this project.
CO


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