Here's some pictures of my clutch basket and gears for my 250r, the kickstarter is slipping constantly when trying to start, the gears do not mess well at all and you have to find that special location for it to mesh-the 250r will not go forward at all, it does go into gear but no forward at all-clutch is suspected here.

As usual, I do not have the hardware needed to download off my camera---GRRRRR

LOL, just battin 1000 huh Mud? Sounds like my luck.

I am so computer stupid it is pretty embarrassing-like my spelling near 5th grade level.I'll pos t when I get to toehr garage-I know I have whats needed there

Pics finally-I would like some imput please on the kickstarter gears and the basket, or these trashed or what?I also have pictured some other pics of stuff I have found-
Currently the clutch basket was missing the steel bearing on the clutch rod-the side case dowels are missing as well, the 2 water inlets are the side case are cracked and damaged as well-Also alot of gray spooge on the bottom of the cases, I have changed the oil in it 4 times already trying to clean it out and each time the oil comes out grey and dirty.

more pics

ok, found out something while looking in the service manuals and parts fiche-I seem to be missing 2 washers on the main shaft for the kickstarter gears-I think these are perhaps spacers for the main larger gear in regards to the side cover and may be the reason the gear doesnt mesh well,the side cover slides onto the shaft and those 2 washers may keep that main gear from sliding back and forth on it-without them the main gear might be able to walk on the shaft thus causing the kickstarter to miss as it was-ANY IMPUT?
Also measured the springs-all 4-LOL 3 where the same at 43.33mm and the forth was at 43.66 all within tolerances set at 45mm from service manual.Discs are within tolerances as well measured 3.03mm service limit is 2.85mm and also the discs appear new to me with plenty of material left on them.I didnt check the plates for warp clearances just yet.

How does kick starter work? Wear caused by mutt holding kick starter down whilst Engine is running?

How did clutch work, seen them worn worse than that but worked good, back in the old days when I had no money I would file down the high spots on the clutch basket a little, I just knocked down the high spots and didnt chase the whole groove, made it last for a few more years where as my buddys would whip out the credit cards and buy a Hinson

The broken part will need replaced at any rate.

You sure you have parts missing on the shift rod their was different setups...

http://www.pilotodyssey.com/TRX/viewtop ... cc696f1a21

Dunno what happen to the pics maybe Sunblock knows?


http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmptZM ... &_osacat=0

http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmptZM ... &_osacat=0

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-TR ... ccessories

Has replaceable wear plates.

Clutch did not work at all, the cable has been replaced on it-start it up, pull lever in, put in gear and release clutch lever, nothing, will not move at all, rev it and all, nothing
I tightened the springs all the way -would move but was slipping badly-got any ideas?

Kickstarter would slip when trying to start, would return fine and had tension, but when you tryed to kick it it will slip numerous times till you find the right "spot" and they mesh-I hope I am explaining this right-you understand what I mean?

I do not think you could bend the teeth that far without breaking at least some of them , if not all of them off. The gear sets should all be a very hard forged steel. They are probably angled like that to release when the Engine fires and you are standing on the kick start lever. I am willing to bet the missing washers/spacers is the problem, keeping the teeth from fulling grabbing and maybe rounding the gear teeth tips. Was there any metal shavings in the drained oil?

Any burnt smell or the oil very black? The silver spooge on the bottom is probable fine metal particles. If its dull grey probably alum, steel is usually shiney. I ask because I am wondering why you are changing the clutch? plate slippage or damage? My 86 still has the original oil and it looks fine. I assume yours is an 85 from the black paint. I can take some pictures for you of mine early next week, driving 11 hrs back up to Great Falls Montana tomorrow. I noticed a slight oil seep around the shifter lever so I will pull it to change the seal anyway.

What type oils do you run in the gears? Hoser, what do you recommend? Synthetics, natural or blends? Any "addatives"? I like the slick 50 type gear lubes additives in my 350s but am leary about having it in a wet clutch system. Any ideas or comments. I would really like to get a magnet drain plug for my 350s anf 250R, any ideas where to get one or build one?

You might want to do a search on 3WW for 250R kick starter gears. Lots of good tech info there, that what I do quite often.

Sorry, not much help at this point.
Gary

No, thanks for the reply Gary-reason for removal is the 250r will not move at all in gear-I can put the trike in gear while not running and it goes in,when the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is on pull the clutch, drop it in gear and release lever-nothing, goes no where-I tightened the springs all the way and tryed it again, this time it would go on the line but that's it, rev's didn't help at all-I am assuming the clutch is bad but so far everything is measuring in tolerances-
oil is dull grey each time, came out dark when it arrived here (havent rode it since it arrived)and no burnt smell at all.Oil changes since initial one have come out all dull grey-there is a good amount of fine metal on bottom of cases on clutch side-shiny material.3 wheeler boards search have given little nfo except that most guy switch out the 85 gears with the 86's for some reason----also it does seem like the 85 is notorious for the kickstarter slippage.

I always used straight 30 weight Valoline oil in my ATC TRX trans and change after every ride event where I burned more than 3 tanks of gas, never any clutch problems other than normal wear, I change my fibers in my 83 ATC250R once since it was new and they still were with in factory usable specs. I save them for spares

I seen the post just above my last post after I posted, answering some of my questions, if that makes sense. LOL I am a one fingered typer and it takes a while for me to make a long post.

Anyway, definitely a slipping clutch, duh, you knew that. I am betting that the missing parts are the culprit, causing not enough pressure and slipping kick starting. If you have that much shavings, you need to find out what parts they are coming from and see if damaged parts replacement are nessisary. If you don't find where the shavings are coming from on the clutch, I would disassemble the whole gear set and inspect everything including the bearings. They need flushed cleaned anyway. Hopefully, its all clutch basket stuff and the whole thing can be swapped out easily. I have a manual if you have any more spec questions, if you don't have one.

Hoser, changing the oil after every three tanks? Wow, that's dedication, or cheap insurance on clean lubrication with no chance of oil breakdown. Do you do the same on you Pilot tranny oil? I only do the tranny oils 2-3 years, probably should do it more often.

Gary

Got any ideas on the clutch issues Gary by chance?Everything specs right-it has gears when not running(will go into each gear shifting it manually by hand)I am missing the 1 spring obviously but anything strick you about the loss of clutch when running?Why did it have something after I tightened the springs all the way down?I wish I had checked them for proper torque prior to doing that-but alias I didn't.

The trike would not move, then you cranked the clutch all the way down, and then it moved but was slipping bad, right? The clutch rings have to be bad/worn out or the basket is bad somehow. Either way, I would swap the entire thing out. All the shavings make me very nervous. You have to figure out where they are coming from too.

Where is Twilight? He just went through his 85 several times and it should all be fresh in his mind.

Sorry, wish I lived closer to lend a hand,
Gary

I can second that one.

In 25 years I changed the mobil I 30wt in my '83 3 times and never changed the clutch plates, though I had a spare set. First 10 years of that bikes life was spent 40-60 hours a month at Glamis from October to May. When I parted it out the internals were like new and the clutch plates were still functioning fine.

Need to find out if the spare plates will work on the '85.

yes that's what happened here.The metal on the bottom of the cases was very fine-no chunks in htere just film that I would attribute to years of wear-probably a clutch or 2 IMO, theres was that thin layer film of it that was it.I'll change out the clutch basket, plates and install the upgraded OEM clutch kit as per Hosers TRX PAGE and go from there.
I just might as well order new gears for the kickstarter as well with the new washers as per the manual too.I think I may look at ROCKY MTN or others for best deals as the OEM is gonna be probably 300+ min for the complete set-up I am betting.

Will be checking online today for baskets, discs, plates,springs for this-might as well try them, my only question is this though-if everything plate and disc wise is measuring within tolerances, why is the clutch not operating,I have seen worn plates before and these look fine and measure fine as well-could the basket be worn down so much?I havent measured it in anyway-doesnt seen to have that bad of grooves on the side surfaces either-any ideas on this?
I understand that my explaination of tightening the clutch down to get some movement out of the 250r would indicate a worn clutch, but examination of the parts makes me think otherwise-if the gears themselves internally where bad the trike would not go into gear correct??, when not running the trike will go into each gear manually, you push on the trike for each time you shift gears and it grabs, that would be a good test right-if the internals were bad it wouldn't catch right?there would be nothing if my memory serves me right-Nuke-em any thoughts here?

Some more pics of the plates and basket-am I wrong these plates look fine?

Nothing discolored then you need to measure the thickness of the plates both metal and fiber to tell if they are worn out or not.

I would take a file and smooth off the high spots on the clutch basket then the plates cant hang up on the wear grooves.

I measured both discs and the plates-the discs measured in tolerances and the plates are not warped, I checked them all with feeler gauge as per manual.I posted the reading for the discs before in the thread-like 3.03 mm manual says 2.85mm and under is bad.Those plates look ok don't they?

ok, 3 wheeler boards got to me-according to several guys over there on the late 85 model year motors they changed the internals on the shaft for the kicker and there should be no washers on that shaft-they suggest to just replace the gears and second spring(smaller one),so I ordered them again from SERVICE.Still have clutch woes and will work on that from here out.

Sorry mud using the phone until i get a new laptop, whats the clutch woe? I have 3 here that you can have, hahaha

Clutch wont work at all-have nothing-won't move when running at all, I tightened the springs on the clutch all the way and it moved, but at a crawl and revving it did nothing either-plates appear to be fine, tolerances fine,see the pictures?
I will check the clutch cable on it, I purchased it and havent ridden it since I got it off the truck so I have no idea as to what history it has-I have a 89 clutch upgrade kit but after looking at the 3 wheeler board I may have it already(the needle bearing on the outside of the clutch gave it away)installed on this.Any ideas? Cable?basket?I'll take anything your willing to give-I will of coarse pay for them too- just a thought-