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 Post subject: FL350R Change Switch
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Hello, I am adapting a pilot wire harness to my sons odyssey.

On the odyssey wire harness at the change switch ( nuetral / reverse switch ) there are two resistors. I do not have an odyssey to test from at this point and need to know what they do power/ ground in the different shift positions.

The two wires that go to the switch are light green/red and gray, I need to know with the key on what the wires do in nuetral, foward and reverse.

What does the light green / red wire do in the three positions powered or grounded.
Also the gray in the three positions.
Voltage readings before and after the resistors would be very much appreciated.

Any help with this will be very much appreciated.

Thank you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
The light green / red wire runs from the switch to the starter relay.
The gray runs from the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) unit to the forward neutral change switch.

Massody was kind enough to do the schematic for the 350 in color. Here is the link http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/view ... =schematic

In neutral the switch allows the power to run from the switch to the starter relay.

Forward or reverse the switch blocks the power to the starter so you can't start it in gear.

In reverse it is a rev limiter.

I cut the switch wires from the switch and ran them to the ground post of the battery. This allows you to start the Ody in gear and removes the reverse rev limiter so you can go just as fast in reverse as in forward.
I wouldn't recommend doing this for your son!

Maybe someone else with a bit more electrical experience can help with the voltage readings.

Rand


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 Post subject: FL350R switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:01 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Hello Rand, the light green/red wire for the starter relay is grounded in neutral to complete the circuit and let you start the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and I am sure that the resistor is to protect the switch when not in neutral but what is really bothering me and got me a little stumped is that the reverse wire also has a resistor that looks to be spliced in with the starter relay wire.

Both wires run through a small board, they are not broken with the resistors running through them.
The wires are stripped a little not cut and each wire is attached to one end of each resistor, the other end of both resistors are attached to each other.

I think reverse on the odyssey takes ground away from the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) to activate the rev limiter but I can not figure out why the resistor is there, I am hooking up the neutral part of the switch but I was going to just ground the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) gray rev limiter wire.

The pilot harness has two resistors as well they both give about a 1 volt drop, one is in the same light green/red wire that goes to the ground side of the starter relay it is in the harness behind the steering wheel face plate the other is in the yellow/red wire that runs from the starter button to the starter relay power side it is in the harness right behind the seat where it goes up the frame to the roll cage. The pilot does not have a resistor for reverse that I can find.

I know that people just ground the gray CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) wire, Randy told me to run it to the battery ground. I was going to run it to the roll cage bolted in the same spot as the ground wire that bolts at the top of the right air dam, I am adding extra grounds in my harness + splicing them back to the battery ground and cleaning to bare metal all ground connections to frame and roll cage. I also cleaned to bare metal one down tube from frame to cage, I will be putting dielectric grease to keep rust away.

I need to mainly figure out what the resistor in the reverse wire does, I could just proceed with grounding it but it will drive me crazy until I know what it is for so any help will be very much appreciated.

Thank you Rand for your time and the link, have a great night and take care.......Steve


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
By the way, beautiful build. I specifically love the use of the pilot steering wheel. Sorry I couldn't help with the resistor. I am very weak in the electrical field but I'm learning.

Rand


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:28 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Steve, just got your message-so sorry.I see you have it pretty much worked out here thanks to the board members.I have no idea on the voltage, watts on those wires.MassOdy did a wire schematic on them here, I think it is in that.


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 Post subject: FL350R switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Good morning Gregg, I still need to figure out why they put a resistor in the reverse wire. Do you have a power probe or a way that you could go out to one of your working odyssey's and tell me what the to wires do in the different shift positions with the key on.

Light green/red wire is it power ground or open in what shift position and the same thing with the gray.

I know I could just ground the gray and move on but I really want to understand what they did and why they did it, Honda that is.

Thank you Rand for the kind words and your help was very very much appreciated.

Thank you Gregg, I looked at the schematic that Massody did it is very nice. If you look at the change switch on the schematic that lid looking thing just above the switch is the resistors.

I have looked through both of my manuals pilot and odyssey there is no information that I have found that talks about the resistors as a matter of fact in searching for the info I have found that the manuals are mostly for service, there is not a lot of info on diagnosis or testing of the electrical system at all.

I wonder if Honda made a better repair manual for there techs.

Take care and have a great day.......


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 Post subject: Re: FL350R switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
scpilot66 wrote:
Good morning Gregg, I still need to figure out why they put a resistor in the reverse wire. Do you have a power probe or a way that you could go out to one of your working odyssey's and tell me what the to wires do in the different shift positions with the key on.

Light green/red wire is it power ground or open in what shift position and the same thing with the gray.

I know I could just ground the gray and move on but I really want to understand what they did and why they did it, Honda that is.

Thank you Rand for the kind words and your help was very very much appreciated.

Thank you Gregg, I looked at the schematic that Massody did it is very nice. If you look at the change switch on the schematic that lid looking thing just above the switch is the resistors.

I have looked through both of my manuals pilot and odyssey there is no information that I have found that talks about the resistors as a matter of fact in searching for the info I have found that the manuals are mostly for service, there is not a lot of info on diagnosis or testing of the electrical system at all.

I wonder if Honda made a better repair manual for there techs.

Take care and have a great day.......


To limit the current to ground?


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 Post subject: Re: FL350R switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
hoser wrote:

To limit the current to ground?




Hello Hoser, that is what is bothering me. Should I install the resistor in the wire to the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) that I am grounding, it looks to me like the resistor that goes to the reverse wire is also spliced in to the neutral wire resistor.

I wonder if the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) runs power through the gray wire when not grounded and they are using the resistor to protect the switch but why is the resistor spliced to the neutral resistor.

If I had a working odyssey I could do some testing and figure it out real quick but I do not, I do not know of anyone around me that has an FL350.

Thank you for your time.......Steve


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 Post subject: Re: FL350R switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
scpilot66 wrote:
hoser wrote:

To limit the current to ground?




Hello Hoser, that is what is bothering me. Should I install the resistor in the wire to the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) that I am grounding, it looks to me like the resistor that goes to the reverse wire is also spliced in to the neutral wire resistor.

I wonder if the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) runs power through the gray wire when not grounded and they are using the resistor to protect the switch but why is the resistor spliced to the neutral resistor.

If I had a working odyssey I could do some testing and figure it out real quick but I do not, I do not know of anyone around me that has an FL350.

Thank you for your time.......Steve


To be honest I never really looked at it or thought about it I just read it has a resistor between the wire and ground and assume the want to resist the flow of current to ground for some reason perhaps so its not a direct short to ground just a partial ground like putting a ballast resistor on a ignition system, I was just tossing in a comment to get the thought process rolling while waiting on the gurus to chime in MassOdy, Nukem to name a few they are the deep thinkers when it comes to all things electrical :-)


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 Post subject: FL350R Switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
OK thinking out loud here, Randy told me that when people ground the gray CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) wire to the roll cage that they get corrosion at that I needed to ground it to the battery.

I am thinking that they get the corrosion because the resistor is not installed, I also think that it would be hard on the battery without the resistor.

This is my theory of the system, I am not positive but this is driving me crazy.

Light green/red wire is grounded in neutral to complete the circuit for the starter relay, the resistor there is to protect the switch.

Gray wire, when put in reverse ground is taken away from the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) missfires to cause the rev limit. When ground is taken away from gray wire the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) sends the missfire voltage back through the gray wire, it is then reduced in voltage and sent through the light green/red starter relay wire to be absorbed. I think.

When I tested the resistor wires, power can pass from gray to light green/red but not from light green/red to gray.

I am wondering if the best way to wire the system is to cut the gray wire between the resistor and the switch, ground it after the resistor so as to keep it in the system.

I am not positive on this, any confirmation or being shown my mistakes will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: FL350R Switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
scpilot66 wrote:
OK thinking out loud here, Randy at http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16721 told me that when people ground the gray CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) wire to the roll cage that they get corrosion at that I needed to ground it to the battery.

I am thinking that they get the corrosion because the resistor is not installed, I also think that it would be hard on the battery without the resistor.

This is my theory of the system, I am not positive but this is driving me crazy.

Light green/red wire is grounded in neutral to complete the circuit for the starter relay, the resistor there is to protect the switch.

Gray wire, when put in reverse ground is taken away from the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) missfires to cause the rev limit. When ground is taken away from gray wire the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) sends the missfire voltage back through the gray wire, it is then reduced in voltage and sent through the light green/red starter relay wire to be absorbed. I think.

When I tested the resistor wires, power can pass from gray to light green/red but not from light green/red to gray.

I am wondering if the best way to wire the system is to cut the gray wire between the resistor and the switch, ground it after the resistor so as to keep it in the system.

I am not positive on this, any confirmation or being shown my mistakes will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.


When I tested the resistor wires, power can pass from gray to light green/red but not from light green/red to gray.


Does that mean their is a diode involved too?


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 Post subject: Re: FL350R Switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
hoser wrote:


Does that mean their is a diode involved too?


I think you just hit the nail on the head, one is a diode and one is a resistor.

That makes great sense.

Thank you thank you Hoser.


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 Post subject: Re: FL350R Switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
scpilot66 wrote:
hoser wrote:


Does that mean their is a diode involved too?


I think you just hit the nail on the head, one is a diode and one is a resistor.

That makes great sense.

Thank you thank you Hoser.


Post pics of them if you can most small diodes I have seen have some clear glass on them unlike a resistor.

Next question is why the diode and what happens if one of the two ever fails...


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 Post subject: Re: FL350R Switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
hoser wrote:

Post pics of them if you can most small diodes I have seen have some clear glass on them unlike a resistor.

Next question is why the diode and what happens if one of the two ever fails...


I think the diode allows power to pass through from gray to light green, voltage is dropped through the resistor at the same time and then absorbed in the starter relay circuit.

I think this is done because the power that is put out by the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) when the rev. limiter is engaged has to go somewhere.

I am going to work now and will double check everything and take some pics.

I would bet that if it failed it would burn out the change switch.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: FL350R Switch
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Ok I have got this thing figured out I think.

Light green/red is green
Odyssey change switch
green to green is full voltage
green to gray is o voltage
gray to gray is full voltage
gray to green voltage is dropped 1.3 to 1.4 volts

I take back what I said earlier about how I think it should be wired, if you were to ground the gray wire after the resistor and diodes you would also be grounding the neutral switch as well.

New plan, since power is only reduced from gray to green and I can not use the reverse switch to activate a reverse light I am going to cut the resistor and diodes out completely, I will run the light green/red wire to the same on the pilot harness and I will run the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) gray wire to ground. I have spliced in the pilot harness grounds to a battery ground as well as motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and frame grounds, I am bolting the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) gray wire to the right upper air dam mount that will also have the main ground harness bolted there plus many other locations. I hope it will be ok and not corrode.

I will post some pics of the resistor and diodes tonight, I now think that it has two diodes and a resistor built in to the board.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Here are some pics of the circuit board, I think it has two diodes and a resistor.

Sorry the pics are not good I took a whole bunch and these were the best two.


Attachments:
SNC10341.JPG [14.3 KiB]
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SNC10345.JPG [16.93 KiB]
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