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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:28 am
Posts: 708
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Well, I have searched & so has my brother to come up with vague instructions on how to bleed 350 brakes.

Speed had more info, but, it seemed to be lacking info for my newb brain.

Can someone give a FULL description on how to go through the brake bleeding process? Leave NOTHING out no matter how insignificant it may seem.

I want to change my brake fluid so that when I refill my master cylinder I know exactly what's in it & I'm not mixing different dots & brands of fluid.

My brother on the other hand has no brakes whatsoever & has just rebuilt the master cylinder with OEM parts & just couldn't get it to happen. Due to this, I'm here in the mountains on my own with no other oddy to ride with.

I've noticed that some people chime in with little tid bits, but, no full explanation, which I find absolutely useless.

If someone is willing to do this, I'm sure there will be plenty of others that would find this an invaluable tool.

Hoser, perhaps you could add a sub heading in Tech Stuff called "How to" & all these things could be put into it to make searching easier for the PC illiterate.
I did a search which came up with absolutely bugger all. As I mentioned Speed had the most info, but, I'm totally clueless on what he was on about.

Here it is:

need two people as one person is manning the bleeder the other is working the brake handle

1st apply the brake handle down then open the bleeder What I understand is pull the brake lever & open the bleeder.

2nd start to pump the brakes with bleeder open I understand this

3rd make sure you keep fluid full in master cylinder And this

4th when you think you might have the air out while pumping the handle hold brake handle down then tighten the bleeder and this

5th if that works go back to the normal way of bleeding What is the 'normal way'?

Perhaps a little more info could be introduced to this?

I even checked my manuals & couldn't find anything. Perhaps I'm growing blind & stupid in my old age? ;-)

Thanks to everyone on this great forum for everything else that I do understand!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
you have to tighten up the mechanical brakes first...


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:28 am
Posts: 708
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Turbo, that doesn't help me at all.

How, what are you referring to?

A picture says a thousand words.


Anyone else got any better information?

Not half of a sentence. A full description of how to go through the whole process.

Adnoh? You normally have a lot to say when describing things.

Pics with descriptions would be fantastic.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
I will try and help, there are a few different methods to bleed brakes the best and easiest is with an evacuator pump but I know most people need to do it the old fashioned way.
The odyssey master sets lower than the pilot but niether one will gravity bleed very well.

Turbo is correct it is better to adjust your brakes first before bleeding.

This is the best way I have found for a new or dry brake system on hard to bleed brakes.

Rear brake bleeding 1 person
1 Clean the area around the rear brake bleeder and then remove the bleeder and wrap teflon tape around the threads only, then screw it back in leaving it open just a little.
2 Find a piece of hose that fits very snug over the end of the bleeder and run it up to the master. ( flush the hose very good with brake cleaner and then dry it to make sure it is spotless before using it ) I use vacuum line, yes the brake fluid will eat vacuum line but you will not be using it long enough for the fluid to degrade the hose.
3 Fill the master with Dot 4 brake fluid only, you want dot 4 because it is designed to take more heat and it is just plane old a better quality brake fluid.
4 Take the other end of the hose that is attached to the rear bleeder and submerse it in the master's brake fluid.
5 Slowly start to pump the rear brake lever.
6 You will start to see air bubbles coming out of the hose.
7 Here is the trick, you must keep the hose submersed in brake fluid the whole time if you let it run low on fluid or you let it come out of the fluid you will suck air in the system. Keep pouring brake fluid in to the master as it goes down.
8 Continue to do this until no air is coming out of the hose at all, NONE.
9 Tighten the rear bleeder screw. Take the hose out of the master holding it up in the air and carry it back with you to tighten the rear bleeder.
10 Pinch the hose and pull the brake hose off the bleeder and let the fluid drain in to a pan.
11 Put the master lid back on.
12 I take a rag and brake cleaner and clean the brake fluid out of the bleeder tip and around the master + anywhere it got spilled, also clean and dry the hose.

Note, Brake fluid does not like the atmosphere and the brake system must be clean at all times NO DIRT OR DUST OR WATER OR ANYTHING BUT CLEAN BRAKE FLUID IN THE BRAKE SYSTEM AT ALL TIMES ONLY USE GOOD CLEAN DOT 4 FROM A SEALED CONTAINER. ALWAYS CLEAN AROUND THE MASTER LID VERY VERY GOOD BEFORE YOU OPEN IT.
For these reasons when you go in to your brake system go in and get it done, do not start and then leave in the middle to have lunch without sealing everything up.

One other good way is the same as above accept instead of running the hose to the master you can take a good clean glass jar and fill it with brake fluid and put the hose in it, with this way you will need to keep brake fluid in both the jar and the master.

Front brakes are the same as above and you can do them individual but you have to go over both sides a couple of times, the best way is to get a tee for your hose and hook to both front bleeders at the same time.

I hope this helps and good luck.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Good write up. I have done this pretty much as scpilot66 has described and have still had no luck with getting the brakes bled. Actually I should say getting the master cylinder primed. Sometime 350 master cylinders are just a bitch!

Here is a link from when I had issues trying to get my wife's Ody master cylinder bled.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5703" ."..

There are a few additional tricks the masters have pointed out. One trick that works well is to adjust your pads and shoes so they are tight against the drums and rotor. After that then try bleeding the system.

Another thing that I had to do on my Ody was to use the hose in the fluid method like scpilot66 mentioned and then to get the master to prime I had to use a lot of very short 1/2" pulls on the brake lever to work the bubbles out of the master cylinder.

Rand


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Here are a couple of things that should get the master primed real quick.

The best way is to go and buy a cheap hand held vacuum pump that comes with a small brake fluid reservoir, hook the pump with reservoir in line to the hose that goes in the master cylinder and pull a small vacuum this will suck the fluid through the master cylinder and out the rear brake caliper same on front accept wheel cylinder. Then continue with my first post.

The other way is just stick the end of the hose in your mouth ( make sure the rear bleeder is cracked open ) and suck be very careful not to get any spit in the hose or brake system at all, once you get some fluid through the master continue with first post.

One thing to add on top of everything, when you are slowly pumping the brake lever do it slow like Rand said but also give the brake fluid time to catch up basically wait a second at the bottom and top of each pump.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
sorry mozzy... but the manual has all that and without FIRST adjusting the brakes tight it is a no win deal, which is where I thought ur frustration was coming from...

mozzy wrote:
Turbo, that doesn't help me at all.

How, what are you referring to?

A picture says a thousand words.


Anyone else got any better information?

Not half of a sentence. A full description of how to go through the whole process.

Adnoh? You normally have a lot to say when describing things.

Pics with descriptions would be fantastic.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
I do beleve what Turbo is refering to is the front break shoes. If the front break shoes are not adjusted correctly so the break shoes contact the drums as the wheel cylinder expands, the rod and pushes the shoe against the drum. By pre adjusting the shoes before a brake bleed it helps with the pressure bleed. Basicly the wheel cylinder does not require as much fluid before building pressure and forcing the air bubbles down and out the bleed screw before the master cylinder bottoms out. If the wheel cylinder expand to much than the line can not build enough pressure to force out the air bubble that always tries to rise. Before any break bleed it is recomended that #1 all break componts are is good mechianly working order. A lot of time faulty working componets are mistaken for needing bleed. The most common I run across is the pad alignment pin in the rear. A grove will keep the pads from wearing evenly and hang one cuase loss of breking force no matter how much you pull on the handle. What this does is as the pressure from the master cylinder is applied to the caliper and pushes the piston against the pads the pad will contact the rotor flat and only a portion of the pad rides againt the rotor causing fricton loss or loss of breaking. The caliper piston can push the loss of fricton face of the pad ( caused by groove in pin) untill it can not push any more based on the alowable volume of fluid the master cylider ram can produce. In the case of the front shoes if the wheel cylinder are allowed to move to far with out resistance ( shoe against drum) than the aka peddle pressure is lacking . So first it is a good idea to make sure #1 the wheel cylinders are in good working order #2 The shoes and there movment are in good working order #3 the wheel cylinders show no signs of leaking or one side hanging up.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
#4 make sure the retun spring areaccualy pulling the shoes back into wheel cylinder rod to reduce fricton wear and break over heating. Then one can adjust the shoes tight against the drums which aids in bleeding the front brakes by helping build pressure quicker making it eaiser to bleed. Basicly the amount of the fluid that is moves before resistance is incountered and pressure builds. The fluid presure is what will force the air out or the air just sits there or cyclys back and forth staying in the line. As pressure is applied the quicker you applie the pressure the further the air is pushed down the line and out the bleed screw. The less area in the wheel cylinder due to the shoes not being allowed to move the quick the air can be removed out of the line and thu teh cylinder and out the screw.

As an alternate method one can accual push the fluid up into the mater cylinder which required less pressure to push the air up since it likes to rise any way. One has to just fill up the hand vac pump the line full and the attach the line to the bleed screw. Take a suringe and remove agood quanity proir to pumping then pump the hand vac as the fluid levle rises in the master just use a suringe and remove the excess fluid. Pum slow and just watch the bubbles perk out. Once the bubbles are out do a fluid replacment pull. Top off levle and put on cap and test pressure of the master Hold pressure by hand using the handle for a minute if the pressure drops either you have a bad sealin the mater cylinder ora bad wheel cylinder or air still in the line.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
Before doing the hold test make sure to set the cable plunger to master cylinder clearence found in the manual is set. Loosen up this adjustment prior to work to make sure it has not been over tightened and reducing the volume the master cylinder piston can push. This will alos reduce effective breaking or fade as the pads and shoes wear.

If I can find a local 350 to do a full write up on I will. One advanage a pilot has over the ody is the masters on the steering wheel and indapendent for front and rear. The 350 are cable accuated to the master cylinder and one master with dual pisons for front and rear. ne advatge I found for the 350 for a ladies is there short fingers and the ability to adjust for eisier operation with them need to reach or ride the brake without appling pressure.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:28 am
Posts: 708
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Turbotexas wrote:
sorry mozzy... but the manual has all that and without FIRST adjusting the brakes tight it is a no win deal, which is where I thought ur frustration was coming from...

mozzy wrote:
Turbo, that doesn't help me at all.

How, what are you referring to?

A picture says a thousand words.


Anyone else got any better information?

Not half of a sentence. A full description of how to go through the whole process.

Adnoh? You normally have a lot to say when describing things.

Pics with descriptions would be fantastic.


That's cool, thanks for that, but, no, it wasn't my issue.

It's the actual bleeding process.

Thanks guy's, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Merry Christmas!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:00 pm
Posts: 176
The pumping with the bleeder open can be a long slow process. You don't need any vacuum pumps to bleed brkaes but they can work well.

Instead as mentioned adjust the brakes mechanical adjusters properly. Then...

Stick a hose on the bleeder then into a catch pan or jar JUST to catch the mess. It does not need to be in the fluid.

Often takes two people to do. Especially in a real car. But on an Odessey or Pilot you might be able to reach by yourself.

One person sits at the bleeder screw and one at the master cylinder. The person at the bleeder is in charge so to speak. The person at the master is in charge of make SURE it stays full of fluid as this methoed will move a LOT of fluid.

The person at the bleeder cracks it open and says "Go down"

The person at the master slowly and smoothly pulls the brake (or pushes it down in a full size car) AND HOLDS IT THERE!!! Then they say "DOWN" to let the bleeder person know its down.

The person at the bleeder then CLOSES the bleeder and says "Go Up".

The person at the master then SLOWLY and smoothly releases the brake pedal or handle then once up says "UP" to let the person at the bleeder know its up.

The person at the bleeder then reopens the bleeder and says "Go Down" again.

This will move the fluid far better by closing the bleeder while the brake is being released than the pumping methoed with the bleeder open!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:00 pm
Posts: 176
When doing this methoed above you do not need to hammer the bleeder closed each time during the pumping up and down.

Just really snug while bleeding. Once no more air comes out then tighten it up.


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:05 am 
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 11:02 am
Posts: 1
for a honda the latest sequence (honda has changed the sequence several times) is usually a backwards Z, front right, front left (driver's), rear right, then rear left, a backwards Z. connect clear vinyl tubing from home depot or lowes and the usual size is 5/16" O.D. and 3/16" I.D., make sure you open the bleeder bolt just enough to let fluid out, do not back it out too much or it will leak air back from the threads around the bolt. get an empty water bottle, cut a hole on top to fit clear vinyl tubing into it. make sure tubing goes to bottom of bottle. make sure there was no water in the bottle and fill it a little bit with brake fluid so that the end of the hose is submerged, that way the caliper will suck in brake fluid instead of air. make sure the empty bottle and hose is ELEVATED HIGHER THAN THE CALIPER THIS IS IMPORTANT TO PREVENT BACK FLOW . start with the front right caliper, open bleeder bolt, open the cap for master cyclinder and top off the brake fluid with prestone dot 3 or honda dot 3, get in driver's seat, pump that brake pedal several times hard and fast without going all the way down to the floor (some say you could possibly damage the seals, this might be false but just in case do not do it). next go look at the tubing and bottle to see if brake fluid came out, if it's still yellow or dark fluid keep pumping until fluid is clear and clean. make sure you never run the master cylinder dry otherwise you have to open the 2 metal connections on master cylinder to bleed it. once the fluid comes out clear close the bleeder right away. keep doing this to the other 3 calipers. once done your soft pedal should disappear unless there is an air pocket in the master cylinder because someone let it run dry. bleeding the master cylinder is a different process.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
#1) Can't bleed crappy parts: Remember the stock brake lines are like 30+ years old. The rubber swells, stiffens, cracks, etc. Over 30+ years the master may have sat open collecting dust, lines sitting on someone's shelf aging and collecting grime, and so on. Seals in the master cyl may be bad, dirty, dry-rotted, hard, leaky. The crappier the lines/seals, the harder it is to bleed. Hydraulic systems need clean lines and good seals.

#2) Mechanically adjust the brakes before you bleed: If you aren't getting a full-stroke on the master cyl, you aren't going to have much luck bleeding. Not only does the master need to move, the brake parts also need to move and there needs to be some mechanical resistance in order to move the fluid through the lines and carry air downstream.

#3) Brake fluid is cheap, so don't "re-use" it. Ever: If it doesn't come out of a sealed bottle, use it as weed killer or dump in your used old jug for fire-starter. It tastes horrible, too, so don't drink it. :shock:


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