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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2660
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Anyone have instructions or pics for the rebuild regarding what goes in which order?

I got a brand-new-looking Keihin pump with my rig. Looks like the internals are brand new, likely from a rebuild kit. But the pump isn't working. I bought the square Mikuni one and it works fine, but isn't a direct bolt-on to the stock tank mounts. I want the stock one back!

Searching the site, there is a link posted way back in 2009 on the prior site. Obviously that link is dead. Also checked hoser's PO technical resource center.

Someone on minibuggy posted the same question, and it reminded me I need to do the same.

Anything?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: New Mexico
I have the same problem, I installed the kit and it doesn't work. I must have overlooked something stupid, but there are only a few gaskets, springs & 2 plastic sheets in the kit so it shouldn't be that damn hard, but it sure stumped me. lol..


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2660
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Screw it...I'm going to grab my 2-3 Keihin pumps, test to find a working one, and then tear it apart. Pics, measurements, etc to be provided. But I can't guarantee the OEM parts look exactly like the "rebuild kit" parts.

If you have a Winderosa kit, measure the thickness of the kit's gaskets and post (with pics).


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2240
Location: East Peoria IL
could the FL250 fuel pump help? Just a idea. i remeber this being in the manual when I rebuildt my FL250 pump. Maybe the layers are the same - just different shape.


Attachments:
fl250 fuel pump.JPG
fl250 fuel pump.JPG [ 39.42 KiB | Viewed 1913 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 pm
Posts: 1747
Location: New Mexico
Thank you that pic does help. I did go out there earlier today and put the old gaskets back in it and tested it and now it is working. I guess I should have just left it alone and saved myself 16 bucks. lol..
Thanks again..


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2660
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Here is a the FL350R pump....

There are two versions here, but the ports that share a housing side (half), are the fuel in / out ports. The port alone on one side (half) is for the Engine pulse tube.

Blow in the ports when you think you have it right. The Engine pulse tube port (one by itself on a housing) will give a thump" feel like a pump diaphragm when you give it vacuum (suck on it). The fuel in / out tubes will allow air in the obvious directions.

This one wasn't working due to the amount of shear dirt and crap inside. The other one (right, with all ports on same side) also didn't work. Then I discovered the pulse tube port was 100% block with grime.

Now they will both move fuel. =)


Attachments:
File comment: I will disassemble the left one, but the guts are the same.
IMAG1905.jpg
IMAG1905.jpg [ 27.17 KiB | Viewed 1897 times ]
File comment: Disassembled and laid out. There are also two tiny springs in the housing. And the black and brown gaskets will face the same direction (see last pic)...
IMAG1963.jpg
IMAG1963.jpg [ 27.92 KiB | Viewed 1897 times ]
File comment: This one was a mess, a lot of crap in there!
IMAG1968.jpg
IMAG1968.jpg [ 36.29 KiB | Viewed 1897 times ]
File comment: Oreintation and alignment of the "tabs"...
Keihin1.jpg
Keihin1.jpg [ 56.2 KiB | Viewed 1897 times ]
File comment: Direction this piece faces...
Keihin2.jpg
Keihin2.jpg [ 61.94 KiB | Viewed 1897 times ]
Keihin3.jpg
Keihin3.jpg [ 50.14 KiB | Viewed 1896 times ]
File comment: Springs...
Keihin4.jpg
Keihin4.jpg [ 35.76 KiB | Viewed 1896 times ]
File comment: Alignment pins
Keihin5.jpg
Keihin5.jpg [ 60.56 KiB | Viewed 1896 times ]
File comment: Here's the other one (right in 1st pic). This one is going on my resurrection buggy after I unclogged the pulse tube port. Like new inside!
IMAG1972.jpg
IMAG1972.jpg [ 34.02 KiB | Viewed 1890 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4606
Location: Carson City NV
Excellent tear down D Money!

If I remember right the clear gasket in the Winderosa kit gets sandwiched between the tho gaskets with the squares cut out of the center of them. If I remember right, one of them is thinner than the other and this thinner gasket is the one that mounts against the surface with the springs in it. You also have to insert two of the clear plastic tabs through slots in one of the gaskets with the squares cut in them so there is tension held against the ports when it is mounted. The problem is I can't remember which ones needs the tension.....the spring side or the non spring ports. I think its the no spring ports.

The solid gasket gets sandwiched between the two gaskets with the large holes in them which is a bit obvious!

Like I said it's been at east 2 years since I've done this!

Nevadanotch :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2660
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
If you've got a complete pump like the one I tore down, and the guts aren't torn or anything...they are re-usable. I mean...that corroded mess pumps fuel now after I cleaned it out. I will clean the guts with alkie, buff up the metal intermediate plate, and give it a whirl.

Just happy I can have the stock pump on my resurrection. Square one looks stupid, but it does move more volume (for bigger than stock carbs, so I'm told).

With the Winderosa kit...between Rand's explanation, the OEM pump tear down, and the parts in front of you...you should be able to install the rebuild kit. To test, just hook everything up except the hose to the carb, hit the starter, and see if she pumps.

Couldn't work out in the shop tonight (home alone with my 1-mo old and it's a balmy 9'F outside), so this was what I did tonight. Still got my fix! lol =)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2660
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Update: I got the Winderosa stock Keihin pump rebuild kit and successfully installed it. It's definitely different than the stock stack-up. I can get it to pump, but the internal valving doesn't creating a perfect seal. Not as good as stock.

I can't say I love the kit, especially since it lacks instructions or even a diagram. So, if you can clean-up the stock pump guts, I recommend you try to re-use these old original guts.

If your pump isn't working, simply check to make sure the ports aren't blocked with dirt, grime, spiders, etc. by using a very small flat head screwdriver. And make sure you have a good pulse from the Engine, remembering that low compression may also result in low pulse. The pressure pulse from the Engine actually pushes on a diaphragm that creates the pumping force.

Lastly, this pump isn't special for the FL350 -- it's your basic 70's technology pump. Any 2-stroke sled or ATV may have a pump like this with three ports (pulse, fuel in, fuel out). So you may be able to find a 3-port pump for a similar sized Engine.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:30 pm
Posts: 11
Sorry guys. Bringing this back to life. Fixing mine at the moment.

I bought a winderosa kit for kiehin part number 451420 to rebuild my pump. I didn't sandwitch the clear gasket that has the squares cut out in it between the 2 paper gaskets. Instead I put it right up against the aluminum platw and then 2 gaskets. By looking how I took it apart and how the old gaskets where. It looks like the clear one should be up against the aluminum plate. But does not explain why they provided 2 paper gaskets. So maybe it does goe in beetweek. Any one did you yet with that rebuild kit?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2660
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
I've actually been running the rectangular Mikuni pump on my buggy. Its rated for 14 LPH (3.7 GPH) flow. I'm not sure what the flow is on the original Keihin pump, but I'm told this Mikuni has a higher output. No issues whatsoever with this pump on my machine.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
Great CSI and rebuild thanks!

Think this kit will work ?

https://www.denniskirk.com/_.p172937.prd


Attachments:
Fuel pump kit.jpg
Fuel pump kit.jpg [ 53.71 KiB | Viewed 1284 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4606
Location: Carson City NV
Yep....that's the same Winderosa kit We've been discussing.

Thanks for posting the pictures.

Rand


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3426
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Is all the crap on the fuel side,or vaccuum side or both?
Maybe need to add a small air filter that won't hinder the pulse?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:45 pm
Posts: 2
Mine is shooting gas out the side and all the gaskets look fine ??? Of course this happens Wendsday night before thanksgiving weekend and we are leaving tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4606
Location: Carson City NV
Is this after its been rebuilt?

If so......

Pull it apart and make sure there is nothing trapped between the gaskets.

While its apart, lap all of the metal surfaces to make sure they're flat.

Reassemble and test.

If not.....

You're going to need a rebuild kit.

Rand


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