Hi all,

I figure this thread might be a mash up of a lot of things I will have questions on. Instead of making a lot of separate topics, I'll put it all here.

I recently took the Engine out of my odyssey to do a leak down test. What's the psi and time I should use? I've heard it's like 8 psi @ 1 hour or something. I was thinking of taking the intake manifold off and creating a metal sheet to block it. I would have a schrader valve tapped into it to put the air in. Any input on this?

Since I have the Engine out, I decided to take a closer look at the transmission. I noticed when I was driving it, starting out was quite lurchy. I assumed this was due to the salsbury clutch. I checked the input shaft on the transmission and I noticed something that has me nervous. There's about 2" of play on the edge of the secondary clutch. This is obviously not normal (right?). I have heard of the needle bearing and ab gear failures, could this be the beginning? I have a short video attached.

Thanks!



https://youtu.be/KrJt5naODMU

Lets take these one at a time:
1) I recently took the Engine out of my odyssey to do a leak down test. What's the psi and time I should use?
I attached a pdf file that Duncan racing uses. It says 6psi in 6min with NO AIR LOSS.
I do mine a bit different. I use about 10psi (MAX OR YOU BLOW OUR SEALS OUT) and it must hold for half hour. I think everyone does it a bit differently but the rule is that you don't want all the air to leak out in a few minutes. If it does you got a leak. Find it. Fix it. The 6 in 6 rule is good.
2) I was thinking of taking the intake manifold off and creating a metal sheet to block it. I would have a schrader valve tapped into it to put the air in.
Yes this is what I do as well. I also have a setup with the Schrader on the exhaust port plate. You choose.
Note here: you need a good seal for the plates. I use an old bicycle inner tube rubber.
Note 2: Piston must always be in the down position when doing this test.
3) I decided to take a closer look at the transmission. There's about 2" of play on the edge of the secondary clutch.
Haahaahaha you got it in gear when you do this, don't ya ?? LOL. When you first said 2" of play I thought you were toast. Then you posted a vid to go along with that statement. That's always good because it is very hard to help someone from a 1000 miles away. Don't worry about it because it is not lateral or vertical play. One thing you DON'T DO is rev the pizz out of an oddy when it is just sitting there. These transmissions are splash lube so that AB bearing don't get any lube unless you are driving. Always over fill your gearbox to help with this situation. I put two quarts of trans fluid in my machines.
4) I noticed when I was driving it, starting out was quite lurchy.
This might be normal as you are not really explaining it right. The clutch don't kick in until the revs are up and if you are not used to this it might seem odd to a new driver. It could also be that your clutch needs to be taken apart and lubed on the slider bushing.

Thanks for the excellent info as always! Took a closer look at the transmission input shaft, and there is no other play other than what's in the video. Looks like we're good here. I am familiar with these types of clutches on snowmobiles, but I think this clutch is just worn out. The sheave faces on the primary clutch have what looks like a wear channel. Its so severe, I'm thinking it was designed like that. The clutch pucks also rattle like hell when at idle.

Haven't pressure tested the Engine yet, but I decided to take a look at the piston. Engine currently has 130 psi of compression cold, with the throttle open. Looks like I will be needing a new piston . Talked to a friend of mine about this, and he seems to think it's just carbon buildup but I'm having a hard time believing that. When I got the machine it had the stock keihin fuel pump and fuel lines on it, so I replaced the lines and the pump. Current fuel pump I'm running is a mikuni df44. It seemed like this was a popular suggestion on this website. Could the piston look like this because of fuel starvation? I'm running Maxima super M at 32:1 with 92 octane ethanol free. I've heard stories about running too lean on the fuel pump causing the piston to wear much faster and go boom. I will pressure test before tearing down (if I have to). Thoughts on this?

if you have 130 psi compression don't touch it.. that's right in the ball park.

also don't put a flat piece on the intake when leak testing, put your reeds in and your intake boot on, find a round rubber expanding seal that fits, you want to make sure your intake and reed gaskets are sealing

Flow test the pump per the manual.

I am with fully and rmesser on this. DON'T fuk with it, 130psi is good. Flow test.
Your friend has also made a good call because if you look at that exhaust port it if full of black slim and has black grapes hanging all over. Seems to me that it appears to be excessive amount of oil mix. Are you sure you mix correctly ?? Try 35/1. If you are at all concerned with the piston then reach in with your finger and wipe the piston ----- is it scared up ??

That's a salbury clutch -- they don't got pucks. They got cams and rollers.

Thanks for the info on the clutch. Yes, I know how to mix fuel. I've owned this machine for about 6 mo, so the carbon is from the previous owner. Checked the piston with my finger and yes it's scarred. Some mild scoring on the sleeve as well.

I will do a flow test. 10 oz in 10 seconds right?

I will make some sort of pressure tester that lets me keep the intake and reeds in then. Seems like the right thing to do . I have been trying to build an apparatus for a while but I have some questions --

Thoughts on pressure testing through the pulse pump line? I don't see why this can't be done. Am I wrong?
Can the starter be removed from the case, or is it a component that also seals the Engine?

1) The flow test:
NO IT'S NOT 10oz IN 10sec --- its 4.5 oz in 10 sec approx. Use a stop watch.
2) Pressure test:
Yes you can use the pulse line.
3) Starter remove:
Yes you can pull the starter if you want. It has nothing to do with the seal of Engine.

Thanks for the clarification. Pulled the starter, looks like oil has been coming past the seals. Going to be opening it up with help from this: http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=2285 .Starter ring has some light rust, but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

I also pulled the stock clutch. Read that the grease/water method works well. I used water and it worked great. I got a closer look at the seal on this side of the Engine and it seems concerning. In relation to this, the side of the case is covered in grime. My thoughts are either the pulse barb is leaking around its seat or the gasket for the cylinder has a hole. I believe this gasket is paper, not the steel ones speedchaser makes. Thoughts? Will be pressure testing soon.

1) The reason your starter is full of oil is why we all do the vent modification.
The counter balancer cavity which has oil in it, is actually vent internally through the Engine over to the starter/flywheel area. As your Engine runs some of this oil migrates through the vent system to that side of the Engine and contaminates the stator area and the starter. If you look close at the casing, just where the starter plugs in, you will see a small tube. That's where this system vents to atmosphere. It's just another Honda boo boo on the oddy.
Here are two threads on it:
A) This is the barbed fitting that Randman found online and all you have to do is remove your counter balancer dip stick and screw this thing in with a hose on it and a Can-Am bellows. You then put a screw with some silicone on it in the vent hole located in the top right corner of the flywheel side casing -- done.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17606&hilit=vent+mod
B) Here is another thread where you can use a Ford rad drain plug instead of that brass unit Randman found. In my opinion I would go the Randman route. This thread does show what will happen if you run paper base gaskets though, and it also shows that small vent hole you have to plug.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18016&start=25

2) Quote: "I got a closer look at the seal on this side of the Engine and it seems concerning. In relation to this, the side of the case is covered in grime. My thoughts are either the pulse barb is leaking around its seat or the gasket for the cylinder has a hole".
Not likely the pulse barb is leaking. It would be a first here on this site.
It looks to me like the crank seal on that side is toast. I say that because of the spray pattern I see there. When the oil hits the clutch it would throw it in that pattern. I may be wrong but that's what it looks like to me.

Not really winter anymore but I figured I'd update this. I got a new phone and lost all the pics from when I was working on the Engine, but I made a block off plate and pressure tested the Engine per the instructions and it passed. Held for 2 hours @ 6psi .

I recently added a fan to help cool the Engine while not moving. Here is the fan I used. Specs can be seen on spals website, but it seems to be working well. It moves a lot of air for the size. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spu-ix-30103013. I read lots of threads with different fans and mounting systems. I wanted this to be behind the seat which is not an easy task. To make some more room behind the seat, I made some 1.75" seat risers to give some more space behind the seat. It also helps with ground clearance so I'm not scraping the seat as much and I can see over the front end more. The seat risers were a good help, but I ended up moving the seat to the middle position to help even further. My friend and I took some small round tubing and went to work making a mount for the fan. We used the bolts for the air scoops on on the bottom and an exhaust clamp for the top mount. It turned out better than I thought it would, and there are no clearance issues. It blows air through the jug and over the top of the head, which is really nice. It's a little more than an inch away from the jug, and about 3/4" away from the seat. Rocking it back and forth doesn't affect the fan, since the seat bar hits the cross piece of the frame directly behind it and stops the seat from moving. Enough talk, here are some pictures

I’m a big fan (ha ha) of the spal fans. Great product in my opinion and haven’t had one fail yet.

I should just rename this thread to my fixes, lol. Winter is coming though!

Took the odyssey on a trip to the mountains about a month ago. It did great, although I got some bogging from the Engine. I figure it was due to altitude change since we started riding at 500 ft and ended at 4500 ft. Manual calls for a jet that can cover sea level to 5000 ft. Any thoughts on this? Fan kept the Engine nice and cool, didn't ever drain the battery. Running 32:1 mix, Engine runs great at 500 ft where I live.

I noticed over the trip I couldn't fill the tank more than about half full since it would still out under the cap. I read somewhere that someone was using the fuel cell foam to fix this problem? Sounds like it could degrade over time and clog things up. It might not fix my issue completely is my thought. I have pics to show the leakage. Cap can move up and down maybe .1 in. Any recommendations for fixes? Have considered talking to Emmanuel at Farr off-road for one of his tanks. Would like to keep things stock though.

Yes sir that is nice country.
Those of us who live in the pacific northwest know all about it, don't we .
My brother and I just went for a ride yesterday. 500 ft to 5069 ft.
Looks like you are just on the other side of the hill from us .
Lets take your questions one at a time:

Bogging: Be careful here. Bogging is sometimes low fuel supply (lean). This could be caused by several things like wrong jet size or a pump not putting out enough fuel. You are not very clear on this issue though. Is this happening at the bottom end or the top end (half to three quarters) ??

Fuel cap: Both my machines have some spillage. This is most likely the vented cap. The tank vents through the cap. Question is how bad is it ?? You are not clear on that. If it is a lot then possibly seal is gone but I doubt it. Most likely its just the vent. I bet this happens to everyone. That looks exactly like two of my machines.
CO

There are fuel caps on e bay, don't know anything about them. Search for FL350 fuel cap.

You may want to add a seal under your old cap. Leather works well as does rubber. 1" of movement seem like a lot IMO. Cap may be bad.

No fun starting out with half a tank.

Rear tires appear to be bearclaw's.
Frame looks straight -- no damaged main roll bar or crushed roof lid. Never been rolled.
Original safety belts -- OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Don't see any wrist restraints -- OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
CO

rmesser,

I've seen the caps on ebay and thought about them. I like keeping the odyssey ignition and cap keyed the same, however if a new cap is $30 and I'm paying $4.50 a gal for gas, that's something that will pay for itself. I tried different some square profile o rings from oil filters, but they were all too big. Leather sounds like a good idea, I will have to see if I have some on the shelf. I'll test the leather in some of the gas I use to see how it fares. Also, the gas cap movement is about 0.1 to 0.2 in up and down, so a couple pieces of leather would probably do well

CO,

When I got my odyssey the first thing I did was replace the pump. It had the stock keihin one on there and I knew it was toast. Original fuel lines too, replaced those with motion pro tygon, super good stuff. I am running a different hose for vacuum pulse that is rated for it. I saw that somebody on here was running a mikuni df44 rated for 14 lph so I got one. I tested it and got 3 oz in 10 sec. I ran that for a while and it did okay (better than running stock). My friend had a spare mikuni pump laying around that caught my eye, model df52-233-d rated for 31 lph. I tested that and got 4 oz in 10 sec, so I ran that as my main one for a while. I ran that for half the trip where the bogging happened. Engine was bogging from I'd say about 1/2 to full throttle. I switched the pump to the df44 after running the df52 but it didn't make a difference. I noticed sometimes some black stuff would come out of the df52 vent too, so back on the shelf it goes. I do believe I'm having a starvation issue like you say. When I'm riding around my property I don't get any signs of bogging/starvation but I believe this is because I'm on and off the throttle a lot. Coasting to half to coasting to full, etc.. I think this gives the fuel system time to fill the bowl back up if that makes sense. Could be and issue because of the check valve? Maybe it's redirecting the fuel more than it should. I have thought about using the df52 w/out the check valve since it has the pressure relief vent on it but not sure now because of the black stuff. Could be a mix of gas and diaphragm degrading?

For the fuel spillage, if I were to fill the tank up full and ride for 10 minutes I'd lose close to 1/3 tank on the terrain I ride on. It is enough of a concern for me because it could pose a fire hazard and gas costs money, lol

I am very happy with where I can ride. We mainly ride in Skagit Valley and a few other places

One at a time again:
1) Fuel pumps: Yes I have a pile of these laying on my bench as well. Honestly I think these vacuum pumps are to weak to lift fuel. Pumps PUMP they do not suck. I think all of my failed flow test fuel pumps would work if they were flooded suction. That's how pumps are suppose to be installed.
I now run electric pumps on my machines. My brothers machine still has a vacuum pump because he insisted on it because we blew up his machine when a brand new electric pump failed. I have been on several rides with the electric pump and it works well so far.
2) Check valve: I check the stock check valve by flow testing the line at the carb. If it fails test then I reinstall line on carb and remove return line to tank. Retest flow. If it passes now then check valve shot. If it don't pass then pump no good.
3) Fuel spillage: Yeah that's a lot. I think you got a problem LOL.
4) Skagit Valley: HOLY crap you are just on the other side of the hill from me. I thought some of those hills looked familiar LOL. We ride up the Skagit as well but from this side of the border.
CO

I have seen the electric pump you and TerryH are running. I am seriously considering it now but I definitely didn't like seeing it fail on your machine.
I'll do a test when I can regarding the check valve. At least I can still buy an oem one if this one is bad.

What a coincidence! I ride about 50 miles south of the border but I have to be careful not to ride on NF land, so my area isn't as big as yours. It's still a great place to ride

1) Electric pump: Basically what happened was the pump was DOA. If the pump works out of the box you are good to go. It works. What happened on the one that blew up our machine was that it would not start up sometimes unless you gave it a smack with a rock. Then it would run for awhile and quit working until you smacked it again. These pumps shut off by themselves when pressure is reached normally. Then restart when psi drops. This faulty pump did not do this. It would not restart. It was sticky.

2) I bet most of our vacuum pumps will work if they were flooded suction. These diaphragm pumps are to weak to lift fuel. They work for a while and then get weak. I am going to experiment with all my ded pumps this winter. Since I pull fuel from the drain plug on all my machines I bet money they would work fine if I mounted the pump under the tank.

3) The Skagit road on our side of the border actually runs all the way into your country. There is a power dam up there on your side and also a Ranger station. When I was a teenager we would ride our dirt bikes up there and use the picnic sites on your side. We had our guns and just waved at the Rangers if we saw them. It was never an issue. I bet it's not like that now. Back in those days the road did not connect to any other roads in the USA. It was a dead ender. Not sure if it is still like that.
CO

Fixed the gas cap leak. 1/8 buna N rubber cut to fit on the old gasket. Tight fit on the cap itself so it doesn't come off when I pull the cap. Good and tight on the tank bung now, but won't break anything

What material did you use? I am curious if you must use rubber that is resistant to gas.

I used a nitrile rubber sheet but it can also be found as buna N rubber. So far the gasket hasn't degraded or weakened, fingers crossed

Friends and I went on another trip to the hills just recently, and the odyssey lasted about 2 hours. Flywheel key was sheared again. This is the second time this has happened, so I'm thinking there must be too much damage done to the flywheel.

Picture below confirms my suspicions and shows the rounded lip on the key way and scoring from the broken keys. Definitely will be needing a flywheel either way. Toying with the idea of machining the key way a little deeper and making a taller key.

Thoughts?