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 Post subject: Pilot Nerf Bars - design
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:03 am
Posts: 185
Location: Anchorage Ak
Ok, been thinking of what all I need to think about before powder coat... this weekend I was going to build a front and rear bumper, probably going to build ones that mimic the FL800's. They are made out of 1" aluminum sch40 pipe, I like this because no need to paint, worry about rust and it's weaker than the frame and so it should create a crumple zone.
What I'm after is pictures of nerf bars, thinking I should make mounting points now so I don't have to be careful abount fresh paint. Thinking of using the top bolt on the roll cage as one attachemnt point. Ideas???

Akpilot


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:57 pm
Posts: 407
Location: Orlando
I think Stoneman has the best looking nerfs I have seen on a Pilot. Not sure how they mount


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:44 am
Posts: 541
where is a picture of Stonemans at?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:03 am
Posts: 185
Location: Anchorage Ak
Ok,

Been playing with what I would like to do. Being up here without any pilots with nerfs on them, I can only imagine it is s PITA to get in and out of. Again I'm wanting to build them before powdercoat, whether I use them or not. Always thinking of bringing both down to the lower 48 when my son goes to college in 3 years.

Here is some of my thought. Still looking for opinions, good or bad, structural or asthetics.

Ak,


Attachments:
File comment: I made 3 mounts to the frame. I was able to use one existing plastic bolt mounts that are not being used because of the stretch, welded in a new bung for the other. For the top roll cage mount I went 3" above where it bolts to the frame.
DSC02511 (2).jpg
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File comment: Bottom tube.
DSC02510 (2).jpg
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File comment: Thinking of keeping it level in line with the plastic. Will have a slight angle down to the frame, you can see it now goes into the small triangle in the frame but will angle down to the mounting tab.
DSC02512 (2).jpg
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File comment: One of my biggest objectives is to be able to strap extra gas to the Nerf. Making it for a 5 gallon but a 2.5 seems more likely. This is patterned after what I believe is the ATVR nerfs.
DSC02513 (2).jpg
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File comment: In order to not have more of a funky bend around the 5 gallon gas tank it will keep the tube junction about 5 inches from the plastics. I think it would look better a bit closer, a 2.5 would keep it straighter.
DSC02514 (2).jpg
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File comment: More simplistic approach.
DSC02515 (2).jpg
DSC02515 (2).jpg [ 593.01 KiB | Viewed 3229 times ]
File comment: Been thinking, I hate it when others I let drive my Fl800 put their boots on the top rail/plastic of the Pilot. With the sloping of the nerf maybe a level top bar would be a good place to "step" on, again I've never had to get in a Pilot with nerfs. Also looking at a 4th mount just above the front mount, might help blend in where the side plastics "untuck" from front fender and hold the tank better. Also a plate in front to help "extend" the front fender out and down.
DSC02517 (2).jpg
DSC02517 (2).jpg [ 620.95 KiB | Viewed 3229 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:03 am
Posts: 185
Location: Anchorage Ak
Still looking at options, thinking on making a 4th mounting and running two, this helps minimize the look of the short plastics.

Ak


Attachments:
File comment: This looks like it runs down hill too much having both bars parallel.
DSC02518 (2).jpg
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File comment: Looks better with some splay to them. This is about 4 inches
DSC02519 (2).jpg
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File comment: 5 gallon fits in the middle.
DSC02521 (2).jpg
DSC02521 (2).jpg [ 384.32 KiB | Viewed 3197 times ]
File comment: With the 2.5 in the front makes for a good mud flap extender. Will look at putting a wrap of diamond plate around the corner.
DSC02522 (2).jpg
DSC02522 (2).jpg [ 413.23 KiB | Viewed 3197 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 1779
Location: Ma
I love the nerfs...
I will be trying my own nerf build Sunday...
Regards


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
I always just step over the nerfs? Never slowed me down getting in...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3760
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
In pain for the Wayne! :-)
Hey Diablo,why not run the vertical nerf bar,in twin nerf bars-staggered-off the front and rear twin roll bar bolts?
This way it would half the impact loads,plus keep in with the theme.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3760
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Like this.


Attachments:
Untitled.png [1.21 MiB]
Downloaded 166 times
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:48 am
Posts: 194
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Here is what I plan on doing for nerf bars for my buggy. I already have the tubes bent, and can hopefully get them built next weekend. I am using 1" x .083 1020 DOM for the main tubes, and .750" x .065 for the two diagonal braces. The pair of nerfs should weigh about 20 lbs.


Attachments:
Nerfs 1.JPG
Nerfs 1.JPG [ 64.85 KiB | Viewed 1998 times ]
Nerfs 2.JPG
Nerfs 2.JPG [ 55.81 KiB | Viewed 2004 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:45 pm
Posts: 885
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/clone.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:56 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
first time you stab yourself with them sharpass points you will yank them off and redesign them...

JustMtb44 wrote:
Here is what I plan on doing for nerf bars for my buggy. I already have the tubes bent, and can hopefully get them built next weekend. I am using 1" x .083 1020 DOM for the main tubes, and .750" x .065 for the two diagonal braces. The pair of nerfs should weigh about 20 lbs.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:44 am
Posts: 541
Looks pretty good. I have always liked the nerf bars but wasn't sure where to get them or how much they would be.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Keep in mind when mounting nerfs that the nerf is suppose to be disposable like a front or rear bumper, you want the nerf structure weaker than the frame, you want the mounting points weaker than the nerf structure so when you use them and apply forces the thrist thing to bend is the mounts then the nerf 9 times out of 10 all you bend is the mount and its easily repaired.

What you don't want is to mount it where its dead onto a tube on the frame when someone rams you it just drives the nerf into the frame and bends your frame.

When I ran nerfs on my Pilot the maintenance on the nerfs was about the same as the skid plates they all needed removed straightened then painted or touch up of the coatings was required, I kept snagging my nerfs on stumps and rocks too often to removed them, they are great for tight trails in the woods where you have to rub your way through and for racing.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:33 pm
Posts: 319
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
With that in mind I think I might cut the welds on my nerfs and find a way to clamp them on.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:48 am
Posts: 194
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Turbotexas wrote:
first time you stab yourself with them sharpass points you will yank them off and redesign them...

I will make sure to grind those tube junctions razor sharp, maybe even weld on a spike just for you...


hoser wrote:
Keep in mind when mounting nerfs that the nerf is supposed to be disposable like a front or rear bumper, you want the nerf structure weaker than the frame, you want the mounting points weaker than the nerf structure so when you use them and apply forces the first thing to bend is the mounts then the nerf 9 times out of 10 all you bend is the mount and its easily repaired.

What you don't want is to mount it where its dead onto a tube on the frame when someone rams you it just drives the nerf into the frame and bends your frame.

they are great for tight trails in the woods where you have to rub your way through and for racing.

I agree with these points. I went with the 1" mild steel tube instead of 1.25" chromoly like the chassis to allow it to bend easier. My mounting points use a bolt and clevis-tab arrangement, so the joint is free to rotate in the fore-aft direction which should help. And I put the mounting points as close to my tube nodes as possible.

I'm only putting nerfs on my buggy for racing. I worry about getting tires tangled up in short course stuff, and for woods racing I need to keep trees out of the rear wheels. If the buggy was purely recreational I probably wouldn't bother with nerfs.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:03 am
Posts: 185
Location: Anchorage Ak
Well I finished up the nerfs, hopefully with it being aluminum it will bend in before the frame. The lower rear arm that will take most of the hit is at a pretty good angle, the plan is some of the force the nerf takes will bend it backwards and not be transmitted to the frame. I plan to brace accross these two mounting points (between seat and gas tank) and also this brace will pickup the skid plate.

Bazz, I did think of the double but decited that just one will hamper the gas fill up as is. Granted on the right side it would work and would keep with the theme.

Justmtb44, mine is kindof like yours without the cross brace going from the front bend to the back mounting point. Maybe make the brace with a slight bend in it to help it collapse or even thinner material.

Akpilot


Attachments:
File comment: I'll be cutting off the excess when I get the bigger tires on, and then making a downward brace from the upper rail to the end making a small triangle, all to be done at a later date.
DSC02524 (2).jpg
DSC02524 (2).jpg [ 398.79 KiB | Viewed 3079 times ]
DSC02525 (2).jpg
DSC02525 (2).jpg [ 428.26 KiB | Viewed 3079 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:17 am
Posts: 192
I assume you are going to shorten the piece that runs beside the rear tire and triangluate it back to the rear mounting tube?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:03 am
Posts: 185
Location: Anchorage Ak
Odyknuck wrote:
I assume you are going to shorten the piece that runs beside the rear tire and triangluate it back to the rear mounting tube?



Nah, The tire is a intergral part of my engineered crumple zone :-)


In the small dialogue box, I'll trim off once I get the larger tires on, still not sure if I'll be running 27" or 28" mudlites. Thinking the 4 stroke will be able to pull the 28's but I'll run it with 26" before ordering new tires and see where clutching/speed runs is at and then make a determination on final gear ratio. (checking againsed the Fl800 clutching chart when I had 28" then 26" tires).

Akpilot


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:48 am
Posts: 194
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Akpilot wrote:
Well I finished up the nerfs, hopefully with it being aluminum it will bend in before the frame. The lower rear arm that will take most of the hit is at a pretty good angle, the plan is some of the force the nerf takes will bend it backwards and not be transmitted to the frame. I plan to brace across these two mounting points (between seat and gas tank) and also this brace will pickup the skid plate.

Justmtb44, mine is kind of like yours without the cross brace going from the front bend to the back mounting point. Maybe make the brace with a slight bend in it to help it collapse or even thinner material.

Those turned out nice, I like them. The aluminum will definitely bend before the frame, hopefully not too easily.

I got mine almost done this past weekend. I made the cross brace you are talking about out of 0.75" x .049" wall steel tube so it should give fairly easily. Although now that they are built they seem pretty beefy, but I think they will work well. I still need to add one more tube from the front outer corner to the upper outer corner.


Attachments:
File comment: Nerf bar
IMG_0087.JPG
IMG_0087.JPG [ 1.18 MiB | Viewed 3034 times ]
IMG_0091.JPG
IMG_0091.JPG [ 1.06 MiB | Viewed 3034 times ]
IMG_0094.JPG
IMG_0094.JPG [ 1.05 MiB | Viewed 3034 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
JustMtb44 wrote:
Akpilot wrote:
Well I finished up the nerfs, hopefully with it being aluminum it will bend in before the frame. The lower rear arm that will take most of the hit is at a pretty good angle, the plan is some of the force the nerf takes will bend it backwards and not be transmitted to the frame. I plan to brace across these two mounting points (between seat and gas tank) and also this brace will pickup the skid plate.

Justmtb44, mine is kind of like yours without the cross brace going from the front bend to the back mounting point. Maybe make the brace with a slight bend in it to help it collapse or even thinner material.

Those turned out nice, I like them. The aluminum will definitely bend before the frame, hopefully not too easily.

I got mine almost done this past weekend. I made the cross brace you are talking about out of 0.75" x .049" wall steel tube so it should give fairly easily. Although now that they are built they seem pretty beefy, but I think they will work well. I still need to add one more tube from the front outer corner to the upper outer corner.


Thing is you want the mounts to bend first then if their is still enough energy from the impact you want the nerf tubing to bend next, if its a really bad impact even with the best design you can bend the frame.

Having the tubing straight into the frame removes one or the first absorbing area its like removing the collapsible canister from your autos bumpers and replacing them with a solid pipe.

I guess I need to dig my nerfs out of the attic and take some pictures.

Also look at the OEM Hondaline bumpers they are designed the same way, the first to bend is mounting points or tabs where they attach to the frame then if that does not absorb enough energy then the cheap ass paper thin tubing they use for the actual bumper crushes, when the stock front bumper has a complete failure it tucks under the tub and ends up against the frame usually protecting the plastic from damage.


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