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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Well thanks to some good weather, good timing with the sled break down, and with getting my shop in order...I finally got to work on the Rotax Buggy this weekend. Will be a slow-go, but it's on the priority list! =)

Accomplishments:
1. Got the gearbox (from Nelly), axles, and rear suspension on (note the new Fox 9.0 shocks!).
2. Dropped the Engine in the cradle to see what I could see.
3. Swapped the 580 SeaDoo intake/carb onto my Engine. It's literally bolt off, and bolt on. Will need to be re-jetted, obviously.

Learned pretty much exactly what the previous folks learned when they dropped their 470 Rotax into their FL350R frame; nothing new here.....

- Amazing how much you can strip off the Engine. There's a lot of extra mass in mounts, etc for the sled that you don't need for a buggy.

- It doesn't fit! Will require some frame adjustments in order to fit the fatty TRA clutch and the pull starter. Will make my own Engine mount plate to fit the stock mounts. Will have to carve out at least one section of tube (both sides) and brace. This will be a combination of tubing and medium sheet (for armor). I can gain plenty of room on the clutch side by swapping the TRA with a 94c, to where I wouldn't have to modify any chassis on that side, but we'll see how it goes. Plan is to keep the Engine as low as possible in the chassis. The farr-offroad.com guy makes mounts for this swap, but his design lifts the Engine pretty high to get the dual-carbs above the gearbox. IMO...too high, plus I don't have the dual carbs!

- Electric start has to be re-located. Thought maybe I could fit-up an FL350R starter, but its made to sping the opposite direction. But since so much of the sled bolt-ons can be removed off the Engine, it'd be easy to relocate the starter to the exhaust side of the Engine. Seems the guy from Farr-Offroad.com did the same thing with his FL470. I shall do the same. But in order to get the starter where it needs to go and leave room for the y-pipe, I'll need to replace the coolant pump cover with a side hose barb instead of up/down barb. Found one for $8 and its on its way.

- The exhaust will have to be re-worked. The stock y-pipe is made for a sled chassis -- not a buggy. So it will need to be shortened and turned. Pipe will need to be reworked as well to accept the modified y-pipe as well as fit/mount in the buggy. Fortunately, I've read this Engine is very pipe-forgiving. Both the pipe and y-pipe are abundant and cheap, so chopping it up won't be a problem.

- Dual carbs take up a tremendous amount of space. The seadoo intake...God, I hope it works because it seems to be the exact thing the buggy swap needs! Not sure if I'll keep the oil pump or block it off and switch to mix (?).


As you can see, I've got my work cut-out for me for the Engine. That's my focus. Once the Engine fits, I'll get to the peripherals and then to front suspension. Front suspension will be either [1] LT500R a-arms/spindles/brakes/Fox-Air, or [2] custom from scratch.


Stay tuned...


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File comment: Note: the recoil starter housing has been removed (right end)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Ontario Canada
Looks good.

When I was doing my 470 mock-up, I had the starter under the Engine. I was going to incorporate it's mount into the Engine mount. I never did the swap so I can't verify it's final position, but I thought I would mention it as the front mount starter on my 670 swap was a royal pain finding the right configuration of starter to clear the exhaust and coolant lines.

I'll be keeping watch on your progress.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
DaveM wrote:
Looks good.

When I was doing my 470 mock-up, I had the starter under the Engine. I was going to incorporate it's mount into the Engine mount. I never did the swap so I can't verify it's final position, but I thought I would mention it as the front mount starter on my 670 swap was a royal pain finding the right configuration of starter to clear the exhaust and coolant lines.

I'll be keeping watch on your progress.



There is ample room for using the stock starter on the front-side of the Engine below the exhaust plumbing. It just needs a bracket for holding and positioning. It's actually pretty simple, even with the giant piggyback actuator on it. Check this out...

http://www.farr-offroad.com/apps/photos ... =146659217
http://www.farr-offroad.com/apps/photos ... =146659220
http://www.farr-offroad.com/apps/photos ... =146659210

Just not sure how close is "too close" to place a starter in the close-proximity of the head pipe (?).

The guy at FARR had a cool build going, just appears to have disappeared.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
I'll likely have to carve out some of the triangulation below the upper rear shock mounts to make room for the TRA clutch and recoil starter, and then add bracing where I can. But not sure...looking at how the Farr-Offroad guy set his up...it looks like his Engine is shifted over pretty far to the stator-side (see ~2" gap between clutch and frame), and the clutches are aligned funky. At least compared to how my 94c and driven clutch line-up on my FL350R. On the drive clutch, the inner sheave is fixed. On the driven clutch, the outer sheave is fixed.

And given the difficulty in finding an alternative rear shock, I'll likely move the upper mount higher to accommodate a very popular, cheaper & easy-to-find option that is better than stock. Suggestions?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:24 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
You cant block off the oil, run a clear hose from top to the one on the bottom and make sure you keep it full of oil or it will burn up the bronze gear inside.
You wont need different shocks, you will just modify the side with the pull start. The starter works, just gets the solenoid tight to the mount. Farr is selling the mount as weld together on fleebay, you modify it to do everything you want with little effort.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Not that I need different shocks, more that I want something other than stock.

Farr will sell the mount unwelded for $125 + s/h. Not bad. Seeing if they have the starter bracket as well.

Time is always slipping on my projects...as I stand here in my basement shopvac'ing water from a blown washer hose. LOL. Someone upstairs didn't want me putting my Engine back together tonight! ;). Thank God for $10 water alarms!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
I'd try to add in some sort of heat shield if your running the starter below the headpipe. Nothing kills a starter faster than a hot header.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3760
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Fatcat wrote:
Nothing kills a starter faster than a hot header.



Yeah!...Just ask Linda Lovelace! ImageImage


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
bugeye59 wrote:
Fatcat wrote:
Nothing kills a starter faster than a hot header.



Yeah!...Just ask Linda Lovelace! ImageImage


You just sparked my curiosity. Never knew who that was. Do remember Joe Dirts shirt that said "I choked Linda Lovelace" She had a pretty messed up story. Wikipedia knows all!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Fatcat wrote:
bugeye59 wrote:
Fatcat wrote:
Nothing kills a starter faster than a hot header.



Yeah!...Just ask Linda Lovelace! ImageImage


You just sparked my curiosity. Never knew who that was. Do remember Joe Dirts shirt that said "I choked Linda Lovelace" She had a pretty messed up story. Wikipedia knows all!



That's it...this buggy's name is officially "LINDA". LOL!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3760
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Rusty has already named his...or is he just always in the mood for a Linda? Image Go Rusty!Image


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:56 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Ontario Canada
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
And given the difficulty in finding an alternative rear shock, I'll likely move the upper mount higher to accommodate a very popular, cheaper & easy-to-find option that is better than stock. Suggestions?



FOX shocks from a Polaris XC. Relocated mounts, and an extension with a spherical bearing in the shaft end of the shock.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Nice video! Always cool to see suspension in action.

I've got a set of Pilot rear shocks and a set of some taller sled coil-overs for the rear. Both require relocating the upper mount and some type of conversion on the lower. And all kinds of front shock options: Drakart Fox Air, older Fox w/ rezzy, Blaster, Quadzilla, SkiDoo.

Got some shop time on my schedule for tonight and tomorrow. :-) Gonna be WAY TOO COLD Mon-Tue-Wed with low temps between 5-9'F. Hoping to get the powerplant back together, and then start laying out some Engine mount prototypes in cardboard and wood. Also going to spend some think-tank time on the stator-side frame re-work to fit the Rotax. The cool thing about the TRA clutch is that its HUGE and you can apply the "emergency pull start" method on it, so the stock recoil starter really isn't required. But would be nice to have. Plus, even without the recoil assembly, some of the right-side frame needs carved out in order to line-up the primary and secondary clutch.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
For the rear as a warning i have put a set of stock pilot shocks on the rear of nickrnrs odyssey and the spring was toosoft and couldnt hold the fl350 up so make sure you use dual shocks or a stiffer spring


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Planning on hacking out the triangle below the rear mount on the stator-side, and putting a 90-deg elbow of 1.25 x .120 DOM for bracing. Plus a couple of small pieces to tie it to the stock frame.

Now tracking down some low-priced throttle and choke cables to fit the SeaDoo carb. They'll have to be lengthened, but I can take the SeaDoo cables and my stock Oddy throttle/choke cables to the old school cycle shop, and they'll make me a new working set with all the right hardware at both ends & length for $15-$20 each. And they'll do it in like 30-min. :shock: Homers Cycle in Toledo, OH is where I've gone for any custom cables (old school shop that specializes in karts and bikes). Haven't been there in a year or so....hope they're still open!

Ordered the Engine mount kit from Farr Offroad. I spent so much time tearing down the sled for Craigslist (and fixing other sh!t thanks to 25mph steady winds), that I didn't get around to the Engine mount. Its too cold to work on much this week (low was -2'F this morning!) and will be cold all week. Need to get this Engine installed and running again ASAP, so off-the-shelf I go. I'm going to look at mod'ing the kit to place the Engine lower in the cradle, but we'll see how it fits once I get it tacked together as-is. Their mount is made to clear the starter where it needs to go, which is nice. But I can trace the pieces to plywood to mess around with alterations.

Parting out the rest of the sled on CL. Got the hood sold for $75. Hoping a $50 price tag will make the chassis disappear quick. Fresh 1" of snow last night may get some sled-goers fired up for parts. UPDATE: Got the whole sled carcass sold for $150. =)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Picked up a spun aluminum fuel tank today. It's 10" round x 30" long, offset fill cap, and has the petcock in a 7" deep "sump" to avoid sloshing. Unique and functional. Roughly 9.5gal capacity. Found her on CL for $75, but paying the guy $85 + FedEx so he'd ship it to me (it's a 2-hr drive and would cost me more in gas$ than it cost to ship it, and will arrive next day). Been eyeballing them on evilBay, and just the little 3-gal guys are like $144!!

With the Rotax sitting where it will sit, I should be able to mount this tank behind the seat/headrest with still enough room for the radiator above and enough gap above the exhaust exit. We'll see!

I always hate this part of a build...THE HOARDING PART. Shopping is fun, but damned expensive!! :shock: And shopping is easy when I'm inside, isolated from the frigid outdoors, and it's PAY WEEK. :-)

Update...added tank pics. It wall overhang by about 1" either side if the cage, so I'm planning on welding in an extra tube flare on either side.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Ok, just got my tank a mere 17-hrs after it was dropped off. Thank you FedEx! =)

But I think this tank will be too big after all. 10" round x 30" long with a 7" long sump neck. It will sit about 3/4" outside the frame if it were sitting between the center hoop cross-brace and the fuel-tank support bar on the Oddy. But I'll have to set it on the buggy frame and see. I do love the anti-slosh sump.

If all else fails, the tank is in a FedEx box, I know the dimensions/weight, and I have pics...so...I could easily list this on evilBay and sell 'er for $150. No other tank like it on there with a sump!


Nothing from Farr yet. Hoping he shipped the Engine mount out by now.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Big red fuel tank isn't going to cut it. It's just too big. WTH was I thinking???? lol Onto evilBay it goes! I'll snap a pic of it sitting on the buggy chassis before I box it back up...it's UBER HUGE. Going to opt for a smaller 5-gal spun tank that fits inside the tubing, and maybe pick-up a remote fill neck to make it easier to fuel up.

Still nothing for Farr Offroad since I paid on Tuesday. Sent a message everyday since. I'm not likely making any progress this weekend.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Big red fuel tank isn't going to cut it. It's just too big. WTH was I thinking???? lol Onto evilBay it goes! I'll snap a pic of it sitting on the buggy chassis before I box it back up...it's UBER HUGE. Going to opt for a smaller 5-gal spun tank that fits inside the tubing, and maybe pick-up a remote fill neck to make it easier to fuel up.

Still nothing for Farr Offroad since I paid on Tuesday. Sent a message everyday since. I'm not likely making any progress this weekend.


It's only Friday dude. Pretty sure it can take some time to cross the border and all. Does suck when your waiting for the part but that's the game buying things on the net. Patience my friend.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
Try finding a center fill also. The side fill ones tend to end up right below the rear down tubes and can be a bitch to fill


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Fatcat wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Big red fuel tank isn't going to cut it. It's just too big. WTH was I thinking???? lol Onto evilBay it goes! I'll snap a pic of it sitting on the buggy chassis before I box it back up...it's UBER HUGE. Going to opt for a smaller 5-gal spun tank that fits inside the tubing, and maybe pick-up a remote fill neck to make it easier to fuel up.

Still nothing for Farr Offroad since I paid on Tuesday. Sent a message everyday since. I'm not likely making any progress this weekend.


It's only Friday dude. Pretty sure it can take some time to cross the border and all. Does suck when your waiting for the part but that's the game buying things on the net. Patience my friend.



Well a simple response to my emails would be nice, that's really all I'm looking for. No idea if it shipped, how it shipped, if the parts are even built yet? I'm not patient when my money is on the line -- been screwed over tooooo many times! lol


Got my tank listed on evilBay. $85 or BIN $135. Looking to break even or make a couple $'s for the "right" tank. =)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:24 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
It takes a while to get across the border, if you have any problems PM me and I'll see if I can get in touch with him, I've not had any problems with him on shipping, just the Post Office.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Fatcat wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Big red fuel tank isn't going to cut it. It's just too big. WTH was I thinking???? lol Onto evilBay it goes! I'll snap a pic of it sitting on the buggy chassis before I box it back up...it's UBER HUGE. Going to opt for a smaller 5-gal spun tank that fits inside the tubing, and maybe pick-up a remote fill neck to make it easier to fuel up.

Still nothing for Farr Offroad since I paid on Tuesday. Sent a message everyday since. I'm not likely making any progress this weekend.


It's only Friday dude. Pretty sure it can take some time to cross the border and all. Does suck when your waiting for the part but that's the game buying things on the net. Patience my friend.



Well a simple response to my emails would be nice, that's really all I'm looking for. No idea if it shipped, how it shipped, if the parts are even built yet? I'm not patient when my money is on the line -- been screwed over tooooo many times! lol


Got my tank listed on evilBay. $85 or BIN $135. Looking to break even or make a couple $'s for the "right" tank. =)



Remind me not to sell you anything, I buy stuff from Canada all the time it can take up to three weeks for a lightbulb to clear customs, it is another country you know.

You go to his web sight? http://farr-offroad.com" ."..

Or try calling him?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Trust me, I know all about customs. I was a buyer for Honeywell for 6-7 years and sent/received parts, samples, materials, tools, machines, and entire production lines from pretty much everywhere its legal to import from -- including Canada -- and between non-US countries. I understand tariffs, H-codes, INCOterms, commercial invoices, fast boats, air freight, US West Coast shipping strikes, trailer shortages in Mexico, brown-outs in Mumbai, etc. I know SHIPPING takes time.

But RESPONDING to someone doesn't require anything but a few keystrokes on a phone or PC. They have my email and my cell number. I don't think it's too unreasonable to send me a sentence or two blurb regarding my order that I paid for and asked about 3-4 times. Customer service 101. They were quick to send me a Paypal invoice when I was ready to buy! ;)

I'm not disgruntle, and I'm not accusing them of any "wrong-doing". This is the guy's side-job and they've done some cool stuff with FL's and Rotax engines. I just want to know what's going on with my stuff and want to keep working on my project. I don't want anything free, expedited, or otherwise. I paid for it, therefore lived up to my end of the deal, and therefore I'm permitted to expect some level of service as well as complain about it. Period.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox (but still on my Mt. Dew rage). :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
jwhill wrote:
You cant block off the oil, run a clear hose from top to the one on the bottom and make sure you keep it full of oil or it will burn up the bronze gear inside.
You wont need different shocks, you will just modify the side with the pull start. The starter works, just gets the solenoid tight to the mount. Farr is selling the mount as weld together on fleebay, you modify it to do everything you want with little effort.




I left the reservoir on my 440 in my Pilot and am glad I did an hr of hard running on the dunes and that reservoir is as warm as the bottom end of the Engine no doubt its removing heat from the bottom end.

I would also want that oil system vented so when the oil heated and expanded it wont push the seals out.


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