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D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=15270		 Page 7 of 7
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
bullnerd wrote:
Is it new or the ebay one?


It's the ebay one. Figured if I was thinning my herd from 4 to 2, one of them deserves a little sumpin-sumpin. Helped I had the $ sitting my Paypal. And you NEVER see one pop up, especially rebuilt and with the fixins.

Already having thoughts about extending the rear of the frame for the RPM and a standard fuel cell.
Author:  bullnerd [ Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
Cool ,that was an awesome deal!

Trans problems are over.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
Yep, no more machining & welding R&D stuff to retrofit the stock box. I'd still love to conquer that concept, but for the price..the RPM is the right direction for me.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
In my searching for more knowledge, I am making some discoveries in regards to the complications & cost of using 930 cv axles with the RPM box. The RPM doesn't solve anything except I know it won't bomb. I'd like to keep the box (whether Honda or RPM) and axles both "stock" and serviceable. And remember this will be tied to a 470, 583 or 670 Rotax.

1. Obviously, 930's are huge. Much bigger & stronger than stock FL350 stuff and then some and then some.

2. Switching to 930 cv's creates design complications on the outboard side...
  • Can't use the RZR/RGR stuff anymore unless converting a 930 stub to the matching RZR spline, which means cutting a 930 stub, machining a RZR stub, and welding them together. (Not much different what I was doing on the INNER to use the RZR axle on a stock output shaft.)
  • Protodie makes $150/ea axles that fit the 930 on the inner and the Rhino YXR660 outer, but the Rhino uses a trans brake so no outboard brakes.
  • Sticking with the 930 micro-stub, the price tag for carrier, hubs & brakes gets out-of-hand quickly.
  • Could outfit the RPM with the trans brake, and then stick with custom outers.
  • Use the 930 driveline and make my own outboard caliper brackets for whatever rotor/caliper combo I can find that's good/cheaper.
  • Seen a couple bigger buggies that run brake rotors on the cups right out of the trans and then mount calipers aside. Maybe scale the rotors down for the wee little Oddy, or simply use only one rotor.
  • Or just bite the bullet and spend some serious $'s on outboard brake kits.

3. Angular travel for DAYS compared to the stock Oddy stuff.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
$185 + find a YXR660 caliper/rotor to convert to the trans brake myself. Not bad.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
A guy building a 1300cc turbo RZR using 930's and made a 930-adapter RZR stub. Then had a talented machinist just make him a set.

http://www.rzrforums.net/engine-swaps/177475-rzr1300r-5.html


Wouldn't take much to turn down a 35-dolla' off-the-shelf 930 flange (NextGen Offroad) and weld to RZR outer stub. Simple. And the amount of power I'm talking about here really won't require a super hot perfect TIG weld. I could at least tack-and-fit-try. Already have the RZR axle, carriers and hubs! Seems a lot more straight forward than what I was doing to adapt the RZR axle to the stock Oddy trans.
Author:  bullnerd [ Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
Hmmm, not sure that would work for the outer?

It will move the pivot location of the CV in towards the chassis and away from the stock location in the carrier.(in relation to the pivots) That might be ok as long as you have enough room to move the inner CV IN towards the chassis.(or the tabs out)

Don't the type 2 flanges fit that RPM ?
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
How would the pivot point change? The inner flange, axle rod and both cv joints are still 930. Just the rzr stub welded to a 930 cup. Just mildly extending the length of the stub outward.


Well the guy from that rzr site will sell a set of tig'd 930 adapted rzr stubs for $300 + shipping + stub cores.

930 drive train is not at all cheap. But i knew that, plus I knew I don't need the 930 strength (just nice to have). Hence I'd like to run thru the thought process of other options. Feel like I've run the 930 options down, as well as the "rzr-stubbed 930" option.

Going with type2, only caveat is travel (25 to 17deg). On a 19" axle the theoretical max travel drops from 16" to 11". Outside of strength, that's the other reason 930 stuff comes with a premium. But a set of type2 axles is a fraction of the cost of the 930 stuff. Set of 930's starts around $450, but they're bomb proof at least for the power range I'm working in. Type2 doesn't open up any doors for outboard brakes. Same situation as the 930's. Do they even make a 28-spline flange with type2 hole array??? Seems counter-intuitive, but everything goes in the V-dub world!

The other avenue could be to just continue on the path with modifying the RZR axles. Perhaps make simple puck with the 6-hole array, and weld to the end of the RZR inner. Could use one of the $35 flanges, or machine an adapter ring. Would seat/center the RZR inner on the flange & weld. RZR axles are cheap, flange adaptation isn't too severe, parts are very readily available (no hacking up old hubs or shaft yokes).


So really there are no "plug-n-play" options in my case without spending the extra $'s on the 930 axles and putting a brake on the box.
Author:  bullnerd [ Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
You just gave me a headache! LOL!

When you weld the 930 flange onto the stock Polaris cup(or slightly cut down one), it moves the rotation center away from the stock location right? That's what it looked like to me in those pics.

So if you use that in the stock outer carrier, the mount pivot/cv rotation will not be stock? As long as you know this, you'll be fine.


This is what I would do,(not that that matters, its your project) the Polaris stuff is plenty strong and think of all the goons who replace their axles right off the bat with longer ones, so you can but them.

"The other avenue could be to just continue on the path with modifying the RZR axles. Perhaps make simple puck with the 6-hole array, and weld to the end of the RZR inner. Could use one of the $35 flanges, or machine an adapter ring. Would seat/center the RZR inner on the flange & weld. RZR axles are cheap, flange adaptation isn't too severe, parts are very readily available (no hacking up old hubs or shaft yokes)."
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
bullnerd wrote:
You just gave me a headache! LOL!

When you weld the 930 flange onto the stock Polaris cup(or slightly cut down one), it moves the rotation center away from the stock location right? That's what it looked like to me in those pics.

So if you use that in the stock outer carrier, the mount pivot/cv rotation will not be stock? As long as you know this, you'll be fine.


Ahhhh yes, I see what you're saying. I wasn't thinking about the outer CV pivot in reference to the RZR outer carrier pivot points. Sorry, maan! :shock:

YES, those would no longer be lined up unless there was some machining of the RZR stub so as to minimize the change in relationship between the carrier pivots and the CV pivot.


I'm gonna' throw the machine shop a print, model and RFQ and see what they'd charge for a half-dozen "pucks". Its a super easy part. If I knew how to program the Accu-rite mill at work, this part would be a 30min exercise! I bet I can have the 2-3 pair of adapter pucks made up for cheaper than the RZR guy wanted for the RZR stub.

Attachments:
File comment: Very rough rendition of the idea...
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Author:  bullnerd [ Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
Chop the 930 flanges that you have and weld them into/onto the modded inner Polaris cvs that you have?

Done!

Like you said, I don't think there's a way around welding something. This seems like the easiest to me, no full custom parts, just the modded cup and flange.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
bullnerd wrote:
Chop the 930 flanges that you have and weld them into/onto the modded inner Polaris cvs that you have?

Done!

Like you said, I don't think there's a way around welding something. This seems like the easiest to me, no full custom parts, just the modded cup and flange.


I do have a pair of the $35 930 flanges (in addition to what came with the RPM).

Don't forget...the RPM isn't even in the frame yet! haha The diameter of the Team driven clutch is 2" bigger than the stock Oddy driven. Trying to figure out if there's room in the cage for the Team driven. The stock driven is only 2" from from the TRA drive clutch, and maybe a little less than that from the rear frame. Basically...not much room there. I modified the Farr Engine mount plates to bring my Engine 2" lower and 2" rear-ward, so its tight!
Author:  bullnerd [ Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
You don't have it mounted yet? Slacker!

Now I see what your sayin, totally missed it. That looks pretty simple. You might have to wait until the rpm is in the frame. If you have the room, that might be easier. If you need to go narrower,(to compensate for the pivot points) you can just use the splined section.
Author:  atcdude123 [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
Woke up thinking about fl350 suspension lol. Came to see how you were coming along on this one. Looks like the most promising go at it that I've seen yet.

As for the rhino stuff the 700's came with outboard brakes. I believe all years of the 700 did. The center brake on the 660's work ok. I've gone through 2 sets of OEM brake pads in under 400 miles but my rhino is super heavy even by rhino standards. Like pushing 1500lbs with an empty cooler and no riders on board. Should last longer on an odyssey that's only half the weight. Center brake also puts more stress on the driveline but I believe but an RPM box and 930's should be up to the task no problem.
Author:  DMoneyAllstar [ Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: D$ Experimentation with FL350R Rear LT
No, I haven't touched this in quite a while. Fellow member "Methodical" took some of the thoughts on this thread and actually built it like 10 levels higher and better than I could've ever done! :-) Search for his posts -- he generally posts very insightful, informative and cool stuff with actual results (not like my constant stream of "I'll get there someday" rants, LOL!).

Just now getting my shop drywalled and heated, so who knows what I'll be tinkering with next. Wife has a constant stream of home-improvement projects, too. She finds something new and expensive and I figga' out how to replicate it on the side of a dime.
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