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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
scpilot66 wrote:
hoser wrote:
If the flushing don't work what are your thoughts on just removing the impeller cover then remove the impeller itself and cleaning the seal surfaces with a lint free cloth then assemble and try it again? That is if their is no visible damage to the seal surfaces.

Have you ever did a CSI on a automotive water pump they have a similar seal setup I have never seen a seal like the Pilot uses, hard plastic and what looks like a ceramic disc that mate and rub each other, I don't even see how its able to seal lol


That is a very good idea, then you would only need the water pump gasket.

As a matter of fact I think that you could probably get away with just replacing the half of the seal that sets in the water pump impeller, it is the part that gets worn from what I have seen. If the hard plastic side is worn as well then of course you would have to replace the whole seal.
I am not saying this is proper by any means, myself I would replace the whole seal.

A few other things that are possible but I doubt it, the spring could lose its tension, the spring loaded side could also develop a small tear or pinhole and the spring loaded part also has a sealant applied to it where it goes in to the case, I guess it is possible that it could leak there.

I have never taken a automotive water pump apart, I will cut one open sometime and see what it looks like.


Allrighty, Ill have to check the rubber spring part of the seal, I can see some black residue on the teflon impeller seal so maybe its the rubber part that wearing out. After reading post here, guys are saying the seals are very delicate and not to touch the seal. What is the best way to get the teflon seal out of the impeller without damaging it in case I want to flip and reuse?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
stix wrote:
scpilot66 wrote:
hoser wrote:
If the flushing don't work what are your thoughts on just removing the impeller cover then remove the impeller itself and cleaning the seal surfaces with a lint free cloth then assemble and try it again? That is if their is no visible damage to the seal surfaces.

Have you ever did a CSI on a automotive water pump they have a similar seal setup I have never seen a seal like the Pilot uses, hard plastic and what looks like a ceramic disc that mate and rub each other, I don't even see how its able to seal lol


That is a very good idea, then you would only need the water pump gasket.

As a matter of fact I think that you could probably get away with just replacing the half of the seal that sets in the water pump impeller, it is the part that gets worn from what I have seen. If the hard plastic side is worn as well then of course you would have to replace the whole seal.
I am not saying this is proper by any means, myself I would replace the whole seal.

A few other things that are possible but I doubt it, the spring could lose its tension, the spring loaded side could also develop a small tear or pinhole and the spring loaded part also has a sealant applied to it where it goes in to the case, I guess it is possible that it could leak there.

I have never taken a automotive water pump apart, I will cut one open sometime and see what it looks like.


Allrighty, Ill have to check the rubber spring part of the seal, I can see some black residue on the teflon impeller seal so maybe its the rubber part that wearing out. After reading post here, guys are saying the seals are very delicate and not to touch the seal. What is the best way to get the teflon seal out of the impeller without damaging it in case I want to flip and reuse?


You can take a pick or small blade screwdriver and pry that seal out of the impeller it should come out easy, if you touch the seal don't worry about it clean it off before you assemble with alcohol then put a drop or two of antifreeze on the seal surface before you assemble.

Not touching the seal surfaces came from macdizzy's site years ago.

Black specs in the cooling system usually come from head gaskets Honda used especially if you blew a head gasket in the past.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Made some headway, Looks like the mechanical seal, oil seal and crankcase bearing can be replaced with the Engine in the Pilot. Lots of room once the gas tank is removed as well. I found that not only does the mechanical seal actually seal between the black spring loaded part and the teflon part that installs in the impeller but it also seals between the part that fits into the crankcase and the black spring loaded part of the seal, see the first pic, also see the second pic wher you can see water droplets where they shouldn't be allowing water to seep past the mechanical seal, I believe the only thing keeping the water out of the crankcase was the oil seal. Not much water was getting past the mechanical seal since only a very small amount of water was coming out the weep hole. I also removed the bearing and oil seal, see pics.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
pic of crankcase cover removed, lots of room to work


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
I ordered the mechanical seal Honda 19217-657-023. It didnt quite fit however see pic for the only dimension that is different. If I wouldn't have beat up my old seal race while removing it, I might have been able to remove the new rubber and glued it into the old race. The depth of the races are the same so I might see about getting some shim stock and just shim and seal it?? Looks like .6 mm or .02 shim should do the trick. I am going to place an order for 19217-MAL-300, Maybe it will fit properly.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
stix wrote:
I ordered the mechanical seal Honda 19217-657-023. It didnt quite fit however see pic for the only dimension that is different. If I wouldn't have beat up my old seal race while removing it, I might have been able to remove the new rubber and glued it into the old race. The depth of the races are the same so I might see about getting some shim stock and just shim and seal it?? Looks like .6 mm or .02 shim should do the trick. I am going to place an order for 19217-MAL-300, Maybe it will fit properly.



I will buy the 19217-657-023 off you looks like it will work in my TRX250R PM me the cost etc. I can paypal you the money.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
hoser wrote:
stix wrote:
I ordered the mechanical seal Honda 19217-657-023. It didnt quite fit however see pic for the only dimension that is different. If I wouldn't have beat up my old seal race while removing it, I might have been able to remove the new rubber and glued it into the old race. The depth of the races are the same so I might see about getting some shim stock and just shim and seal it?? Looks like .6 mm or .02 shim should do the trick. I am going to place an order for 19217-MAL-300, Maybe it will fit properly.



I will buy the 19217-657-023 off you looks like it will work in my TRX250R PM me the cost etc. I can paypal you the money.


I just ordered this seal 19217-MAL-300. If your in no big hurry to get the 19217-657-023 seal, Wait and let me get in the 19217-MAL-300 seal, If it doesnt fit, ill see which one is closest, if I don't use the 19217-657-023 I'll send it to you, Ill just donate it to PilotOdysey.com.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
stix wrote:
hoser wrote:
stix wrote:
I ordered the mechanical seal Honda 19217-657-023. It didnt quite fit however see pic for the only dimension that is different. If I wouldn't have beat up my old seal race while removing it, I might have been able to remove the new rubber and glued it into the old race. The depth of the races are the same so I might see about getting some shim stock and just shim and seal it?? Looks like .6 mm or .02 shim should do the trick. I am going to place an order for 19217-MAL-300, Maybe it will fit properly.



I will buy the 19217-657-023 off you looks like it will work in my TRX250R PM me the cost etc. I can paypal you the money.


I just ordered this seal 19217-MAL-300. If your in no big hurry to get the 19217-657-023 seal, Wait and let me get in the 19217-MAL-300 seal, If it doesnt fit, ill see which one is closest, if I don't use the 19217-657-023 I'll send it to you, Ill just donate it to PilotOdysey.com.


I am in no hurry for the seal I just didnt want to see you stuck with it, I have a TRX it will fit and also another spare Engine from a ATC it will fit I was just going to stock one while they are still available.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Unless its a DISCONTINUED part, I hate seeing new parts sitting on my shelf . Im glad it will go to some one who will use it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:41 pm 
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK
New seal installed and no leaky. Ill get that other seal off to you in the mail H


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22133
Location: Chicago
stix wrote:
New seal installed and no leaky. Ill get that other seal off to you in the mail H

No hurry do at your leisure.

So after seeing the seal you figure out how the hard white disk rubbing on the hard black plastic actually seals ?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3177
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
hoser wrote:
stix wrote:
New seal installed and no leaky. Ill get that other seal off to you in the mail H

No hurry do at your leisure.

So after seeing the seal you figure out how the hard white disk rubbing on the hard black plastic actually seals ?


Yea I did, theres an air pocket between the mech seal and oil seal, pretty cool design and that it works for so many hours. is that a standard system in auto water pumps too?


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