Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login   * Register * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email   
It is currently Sat Apr 27, 2024 7:36 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
Here is some info I have found on the transmissions Triple E used in some of their buggies. I’ve also seen RPM and Coleman transmissions. This is focused on what I’ve been told is a Hymark. I’ve seen 3 different setups. Turbos old buggy I didn’t have any issues with it so I haven’t opened it up. First triple e has a solid rear setup like the pilot. It is setup for type 2 or 4 cv’s. I picked up a triple e from Dave-Co and it has an open diff. Also setup for type 2 or 4 cv’s. I just found a set of cases and some parts that has a smaller version of an open diff. This one though is setup to use the spicer u-joints as it has about half the number of splines. It is interesting to see how they progressed over time and what was used where. The open diffs were not allowed in MTEG or short course/stadium racing. The Dave-Co car was designed strictly for desert racing yet it comes with an open diff. Their were also multiple driven shafts used for various models as well as having a brake on the other side of the driven or not. The open diff cars had dual inboard brakes where the others had one inboard brake or one brake on the driven shaft or ???. Anyway here are some pictures of different setups. I’ve seen pictures but only of different gear ratio setups as well. From 9:1-11.1.


Attachments:
File comment: Open diff for use with u joints
image.jpg
image.jpg [ 58.16 KiB | Viewed 1487 times ]
File comment: Open diff that came with the Dave-Co triple e
75221709-F93C-407A-9A54-604224F8D938.jpeg
75221709-F93C-407A-9A54-604224F8D938.jpeg [ 39.28 KiB | Viewed 1487 times ]
File comment: Solid axle setup that came on the stadiumlite buggy.
18A734D9-65B6-417A-BE9D-9A79EA80DEA1.jpeg
18A734D9-65B6-417A-BE9D-9A79EA80DEA1.jpeg [ 70.68 KiB | Viewed 1487 times ]
File comment: Examples of different driven shafts. With and without setups for brakes on the driven.
9B07A462-4756-41A7-8321-D91013AD3222.jpeg
9B07A462-4756-41A7-8321-D91013AD3222.jpeg [ 56.56 KiB | Viewed 1487 times ]
File comment: Example of how the cases originally came. The only difference over time was the center hole was enlarged for bigger bearings or later on a seal type setup.
4552599B-E53E-4604-9732-E4C5DEA3B3DF.jpeg
4552599B-E53E-4604-9732-E4C5DEA3B3DF.jpeg [ 59.63 KiB | Viewed 1487 times ]
File comment: This was the next step. Larger diameter hole for a different bearing setup.
DB4AA058-6A6F-49BC-A827-E1ACBC9736E2.jpeg
DB4AA058-6A6F-49BC-A827-E1ACBC9736E2.jpeg [ 52.91 KiB | Viewed 1487 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
More pictures


Attachments:
File comment: Final setup was this cap with a seal in it. The bearings are the same as previous example.
image.jpg
image.jpg [ 76.21 KiB | Viewed 1486 times ]
File comment: Picture of the open diff
6BD8E397-E7A1-4600-9576-A688D6CFEE77.jpeg
6BD8E397-E7A1-4600-9576-A688D6CFEE77.jpeg [ 35.21 KiB | Viewed 1486 times ]
File comment: Another picture of the inside of the open diff
5E538524-D435-4E26-AE0C-410BAC5349E4.jpeg
5E538524-D435-4E26-AE0C-410BAC5349E4.jpeg [ 43 KiB | Viewed 1486 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
Two of the forward/reverse setups


Attachments:
File comment: One of the forward/reverse shift setups. This one uses a center gear that the shift fork rides in. I have noticed the brass inserts for the outer gears get beat up.
60DBC4E9-5CBC-4DF3-AC6D-5C4700B8244F.jpeg
60DBC4E9-5CBC-4DF3-AC6D-5C4700B8244F.jpeg [ 41.23 KiB | Viewed 1480 times ]
File comment: Here is the other setup. Is one solid piece with a notch in the center where the shift fork rides. The gears on the end depending will then grab the corresponding gear cluster whether they are forward or backward
D2F1C417-42A4-49CA-B8C1-C87DDDAA8B41.jpeg
D2F1C417-42A4-49CA-B8C1-C87DDDAA8B41.jpeg [ 51.79 KiB | Viewed 1480 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
Here are some pics of the rear brake setups.


Attachments:
File comment: It’s a crappy pic but this shows the inboard brakes on the transmission with the open diff. Cnc calipers or airheart appeared to be their choice.
F335EF20-FC5B-4872-B837-4899412BA203.jpeg
F335EF20-FC5B-4872-B837-4899412BA203.jpeg [ 40.5 KiB | Viewed 1472 times ]
File comment: Brake setup on the old stadium buggy.
A6A2B5AE-5E68-40B9-BE2A-0428BB1CC895.jpeg
A6A2B5AE-5E68-40B9-BE2A-0428BB1CC895.jpeg [ 34.52 KiB | Viewed 1472 times ]
File comment: Same setup just mounted in vehicle with axles attached
56149D5D-CBD8-4DDC-8713-F3FD0242767C.jpeg
56149D5D-CBD8-4DDC-8713-F3FD0242767C.jpeg [ 53.08 KiB | Viewed 1472 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:14 pm
Posts: 1779
Location: Ma
This is great stuff. Thank you for posting. What size cnc master were they using?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Hey Bob: Those dog rings and dogs on the gears are badly rounded. That happened on my formula race car. Pic 60DBC4E9-5CBC-4DF3-AC6D-5C4700B8244F.jpeg. I got my gears re-ground. I took my gears and dog rings to sharp rite grinding here in BC. You probably must have a grinding shop somewhere around you down there. One of the gears in that pic looks pretty bad and I don't think it can be saved. By the way those gears look very similar to the gears in my race car gear box. The angle on my dogs and gears was 7'. I actually had a tapered plate ground to 7' so that I could grind my own gears.
I have 4 pdf files that show different Hewland gearboxes. Not sure if I can attach all four here at the same time. Anyways I had the FT200 and take a look at the gears.
CO


Attachments:
ft_200.pdf [563.34 KiB]
Downloaded 202 times
dg_300.pdf [1.4 MiB]
Downloaded 392 times
LD_200_4_5_Speed.pdf [3.52 MiB]
Downloaded 81 times
mk9.pdf [1.65 MiB]
Downloaded 84 times
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
The stadium buggy used a 3/4 for the front and a 7/8 for the rear
Turbos old buggy used a single 3/4 master (airheart) for front and rear. These two buggies used Honda 4 trax front brake calipers. Turbos buggy only had a rear brake on the driven shaft. It originally used a front brake caliper from a Honda Goldwing. Problem was it didn’t want to float on the caliper pins and actually rolled the top 1” of the rotor inward. I found an airheart 150 series caliper and am having the parts made to Convert it over so it matches the stadium buggy. The 175 series caliper by airheart is no longer made. Clamping force and a larger diameter round brake pad are the differences.
The Dave-Co eee again used 2 cnc rear calipers. They are also airheart master cylinders. The aluminum masters are no longer made and the new ones are a composite plastic of some sort. 3/4 for the front brakes and 7/8 for the rear.


Attachments:
File comment: Only pics I have of the different main gear. 9:1
7EE33159-B2EB-4024-9647-5ACEDB27E149.png
7EE33159-B2EB-4024-9647-5ACEDB27E149.png [ 154.77 KiB | Viewed 1460 times ]
File comment: 10:1
D25D4F38-ECD5-49FC-80AF-354E52D18FBB.png
D25D4F38-ECD5-49FC-80AF-354E52D18FBB.png [ 183.18 KiB | Viewed 1460 times ]
File comment: Front brake assemblies are very similar on the stadium buggy and turbos old gen 3. The Dave-Co buggy has the same spindles but different mounts for the calipers.
32A9A6D6-DB17-4204-A109-57E01188D31A.jpeg
32A9A6D6-DB17-4204-A109-57E01188D31A.jpeg [ 40.42 KiB | Viewed 1460 times ]
File comment: Setup on the stadium car master cylinders mounted up high
F32E7269-D417-4EBA-95E0-52E795DD7CB9.png
F32E7269-D417-4EBA-95E0-52E795DD7CB9.png [ 256.71 KiB | Viewed 1460 times ]
File comment: Turbos gen 3, this car is a pita to bleed the brakes. Single master to run it all with a brake bias lever for front to rear
61758B17-ADF0-45D5-BE83-4FBAC82D0C0B.jpeg
61758B17-ADF0-45D5-BE83-4FBAC82D0C0B.jpeg [ 66.85 KiB | Viewed 1460 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
The Dave-Co buggy uses calipers from industrial equipment. I found those at a company called tolomatic. They build hydraulic and air operated calipers. They are small and according to them have more braking pressure. Down side is these all use oval pads and they come in 2 types. Hard and soft, the hard one have to get up-to temperature before they reach their best performance.


Attachments:
File comment: Front calipers on Dave-Co eee
D42F6356-0BDF-4EE3-91CC-9B555DF6F118.jpeg
D42F6356-0BDF-4EE3-91CC-9B555DF6F118.jpeg [ 67.8 KiB | Viewed 1459 times ]
File comment: Master cylinders
4AE3E03C-A45B-4092-A9FF-A3D9805815CD.jpeg
4AE3E03C-A45B-4092-A9FF-A3D9805815CD.jpeg [ 58.94 KiB | Viewed 1459 times ]
File comment: Masters in the Dave-Co eee are between your legs mounted in the floor. They require brake residual things to keep pressure. In case you haven’t noticed I kind of know what I’m doing, but not really.
7276BE02-580B-4577-A6C7-7F2B5D127436.jpeg
7276BE02-580B-4577-A6C7-7F2B5D127436.jpeg [ 59.04 KiB | Viewed 1459 times ]
File comment: Rear calipers and bracket on the Dave-Co eee are identical to the single sided setup on the stadium buggy. They machine the lip off the cv cup. Drill and tap 3 holes in it. Then machine a lip in the rotor so the cv itself will fit inside of it then bolt it all together.
A5A3355B-92AB-40F5-B333-5E86359EDCAF.jpeg
A5A3355B-92AB-40F5-B333-5E86359EDCAF.jpeg [ 76.3 KiB | Viewed 1459 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
canadian oddy wrote:
Hey Bob: Those dog rings and dogs on the gears are badly rounded. That happened on my formula race car. Pic 60DBC4E9-5CBC-4DF3-AC6D-5C4700B8244F.jpeg. I got my gears re-ground. I took my gears and dog rings to sharp rite grinding here in BC. You probably must have a grinding shop somewhere around you down there. One of the gears in that pic looks pretty bad and I don't think it can be saved. By the way those gears look very similar to the gears in my race car gear box. The angle on my dogs and gears was 7'. I actually had a tapered plate ground to 7' so that I could grind my own gears.
I have 4 pdf files that show different Hewland gearboxes. Not sure if I can attach all four here at the same time. Anyways I had the FT200 and take a look at the gears.
CO


CO I swear these gears are made of butter. The ones in the pic I had replaced so those are old. I didn’t take any pics of the shaft after putting new ones on. The bronze bushings take a beating as well. I will post some pics of the Dave-Co eee. Those bearings and gears changed colors. I’m guessing from lack of lubrication. I lucked out and found some cases. They originally were with that triple e that came out of Cali. Then Mudbogger bought it, then it went to JohnL in Pennsylvania then he sold the car to a guy in Connecticut. He was gracious enough to sell me the cases so I Could get one Step closer to getting this transmission back up and running. I chased those damn case halves all over this country before someone would sell them to me.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:45 pm
Posts: 441
Location: South-Central Pennsylvania
Bob I'm sorry I didn't get those case halves to you directly myself. Happy you got them though, very good! None, presently but I have owned 4 Triple EEE's total over the years. Your restorations are fantastic! I always look forward to reading through your builds here.

If I come across anything else in my shop that is T-E related, I'll surely reach to you.

Just FYI - I read on another forum that a guy Tim that works at "74 Weld" in El Cajon used to work Ed and Sara of Triple E. Whether that's of help, I dunno, but thought I'd pass it along to you.

~John


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
Thank you for the info, hopefully I’m headed down to Ontario and Dan Diego in March. Chula Vista isnt to far down the road. Appreciate you keeping an eye out for parts and leads.
Bob


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
I’ve tried googling name and numbers but get no hits. I know I could get bushings made somewhere but are the numbers in relation to a size? Also would grooving these make them last any longer. They go inside of the gears that ride in the shafts. The bushing isn’t mine but is one for this transmission.


Attachments:
892602E2-DB5A-45D0-9A97-405FE1D9C3AF.jpeg
892602E2-DB5A-45D0-9A97-405FE1D9C3AF.jpeg [ 42.75 KiB | Viewed 1393 times ]
A7C1DBA1-8276-4F95-94FF-20D285A558B7.jpeg
A7C1DBA1-8276-4F95-94FF-20D285A558B7.jpeg [ 19.06 KiB | Viewed 1393 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Rppjr wrote:
I’ve tried googling name and numbers but get no hits. I know I could get bushings made somewhere but are the numbers in relation to a size? Also would grooving these make them last any longer. They go inside of the gears that ride in the shafts. The bushing isn’t mine but is one for this transmission.


You can't just "groove" a bushing because when it gets around to that contact point there will be a divet. You have to spiral groove to maintain contact point.
In my opinion I would get Oilite bronze. That stuff is impregnated with oil but it is also pourous.
You also need the correct Rockwell.
Bushings in gears don't work well. You really need needle bearings for gears.
You can probably get bushings and info from these guys: https://www.nationalbronze.com/
CO

Or maybe these guys can help: https://asbbearings.com/
CO


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
Thanks CO, I was on their website earlier checking it out.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
https://youtu.be/xUGcR6bWlP4
https://youtu.be/EMGD6fIle_o

A couple short videos of the internal workings of the Hymark. I “cleaned” up the gears that were fubar and everything seems to turn better. They need to be cleaned up some more and I have to get the other case half out to a machine shop as well as get the brass bushings made for the gears.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:48 pm
Posts: 874
Was able to get some parts for the trans. Misc gears, Shift mechanism, gear stack, the 2 larger
Gears are a 10:1 ratio and an 8:1 ratio. Also picked up another driven shaft. Will have to get that machined to match the broken one but all in all a good score. This should be enough to get it up and running.


Attachments:
7069E5F9-E1EF-41EA-8031-99A5161344D7.jpeg
7069E5F9-E1EF-41EA-8031-99A5161344D7.jpeg [ 43.51 KiB | Viewed 1168 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Duneit, Google [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group