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 Post subject: John Deere 6x4 project.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:58 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
So after finishing the 4x2 Gators and while waiting on a new key way for the Drakart I figured Id work on getting the 6x4 rolling. As I aired up the tires the whole machine slowly lifted as if coming back to life. It has sat stationary for approximately 10 years.


A little history for ya. I purchased two of these,one I paid 300 and the other 500$. Both had bad head gaskets. One I was able to just replace the head gasket (and a snapped head bolt,this is when I learned the difference between FT pounds and inch pounds). Cost for this repair was under 20$. The second one had rust in the cylinder and after a year of bugging me I gave in and sold it to a friend for 500$.

So after the head gasket it ran great for years until one night at 2am while dragging a long section of railroad track home approximately 4 miles down the shoulder and some times down the road ( it looked like a huge sparkler sliding down the road). At one point the chain wrapped around it ate through from being drug down the road. This was no small chain (logging chain)but the weight mixed with the asphalt ate it up. I was sitting at a stop sigh perpairing myself to cross the 4 lane highway when a cop drove right past me. He looked at me but kept going. I guess a guy in a gator dragging a 15' section of railroad track down the road at 2am raises no red flags.
So as I'm crossing the highway the chain snapped (oh shucks ).. two lanes are blocked with the rail road track and a car could come at anytime. Imagine hitting a railroad track that's across the road at 65mph. Someone would get hurt an off to jail for me. This whole thing started to seem like a real bad idea.
I came up with that crazy strength that mothers use to lift cars off of there kids and managed to get the chain attached again and was able to get it out of the road.

Once across the road I decided to drag it down the shoulder n the grass. In the grass it worked like a plow and ripped a trench 2 miles long to my house. This is when I felt the head gasket go...still driveable and made it home.
That went so well I decided to get another section so I loaded back up and headed out. Must have been close to 3:00am by now.
About 1.5 miles from the house wouldn't u know that cop showed up. Judas Priest blasting on my radio and a huge chain in the bed. After asking me what the hell I was doing he then he shook his head at me and told me to go home. Actually he said (boy u better go home) big black cop deep south accent and a baritone voice. You know home is where I went,I'll take home over jail any day.
So I parked the gator and it has sat there since. The rail road track is still sitting where I left it with the chain around it to this day.

Back to present day. Once I aired up the tires I had the wife pull it with the 4x2 gator while I steered it and moved it to my ( work area) aka where ever my tools are that day.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:03 am 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
Ready to air it up and pull it out.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:06 am 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
Time to clean it up and take the roof and bed off.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:09 am 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
At first sight the Engine looks like hell but that's rust from the underside of the bed that got knocked off. The bed is rusted pretty good but there is a bed liner in it so between it and the roof the Engine was protected from the elements.
I will be replacing the bed pan.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:11 am 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
So the top and bed are off and I cleaned the Engine area. Tons of rat poop but after fixing my sewar line last week seemed like a walk in the park.
I'm now ready to tear into it.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
At this point I checked the radiator. No oil in the coolant. Checked the oil and no coolant in the oil. Feeling good so far.
Turned the crank and it moved freely on the down stroke but I got resistance on the up stroke. Are u thinking what I'm thinking ?
So I started pulling the head. Removed the exhaust, water pump hose and 4 intake manifold bolts. Wouldn't u know one snapped off in the head. I'm used to that type stuff. Would surprise me If at least one bolt didn't snap. Pulled the valve cover and head bolts.
And just like I thought rust in the cylinder.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:24 am 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
Check out the stalagmites hanging from the head.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
So now to figure out my attack plan.
I can park it for another 10 years.
I can part it out for about 2k

I don't like either of these options.

I can sell my 4x2 for about 2500$ and that would buy me a new Engine and some seats with a little left over.

I can sell the one I gave to my mom and give her mine. I can get around 2k for hers and use the money for a rebuild kit with oversize Pistons and cam for 350$ plus machine shop costs. And have money left for seats fenders and tires.

I can put it on the back burner until I come up with the money and keep all three gators.

Now I know I will catch hell for even mentioning this but here we go.

Years ago I had a pressure washer with a 12hp Honda Engine. It came from a storage unit and the pump was bad. After pulling the pump off i tried to turn it over and it had limited movement. I pulled the head and had bad rust inside. I had free time so I proceeded to painstakingly clean out the rust with a combination of steel wool and fine grit sand paper.
It cleaned up nice but I knew it would never run so I didn't want to spend money on a head gasket so I reused the old one just to test it out.
It ran,,hell it ran good. In fact I have it waiting until I need it for something.
I'm not totally delusional but I may try to clean it up just for shits and giggles. I don't expect it to work but hey I got nothing to loose and sure can't hurt it.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:18 am 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
I am open to any suggestions or recommendations anyone may have regarding any of the above.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:54 am 
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Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
So after about an hour and some Pb blaster and steel wool its cleaning up with no pitting so far under the rust.
Gonna go get some rust remover to aid in cleaning it up.

So I say it's gonna run.
If it's gonna run good is the question

I'd be curious how u guys think.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:27 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
Just got home with some loctite brand naval jelly and immediately took off 80% with just a few minutes on there.
Gonna keep treating it until I remove all I can and will figure out my next move after that.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
So after about 10 treatments the rust is gone. There is some very light pitting.
Now I'd be the first one to tell someone there is no coming back from pitting and I would think they were foolish to even try.
As I always say " the advice I give is not necessarily what I'd do"
I know it's a waste of time but I'm gonna ball hone it and see what I got. I'm aware it may run for 10 minutes until the pitting takes out the rings. I have no illusions of granger here I'm just giving it a try.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
You can see where my head gasket failed at abut the 8o clock position. .


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
FloridaEdd wrote:
So after finishing the 4x2 Gators and while waiting on a new key way for the Drakart I figured Id work on getting the 6x4 rolling. As I aired up the tires the whole machine slowly lifted as if coming back to life. It has sat stationary for approximately 10 years.


A little history for ya. I purchased two of these,one I paid 300 and the other 500$. Both had bad head gaskets. One I was able to just replace the head gasket (and a snapped head bolt,this is when I learned the difference between FT pounds and inch pounds). Cost for this repair was under 20$. The second one had rust in the cylinder and after a year of bugging me I gave in and sold it to a friend for 500$.

So after the head gasket it ran great for years until one night at 2am while dragging a long section of railroad track home approximately 4 miles down the shoulder and some times down the road ( it looked like a huge sparkler sliding down the road). At one point the chain wrapped around it ate through from being drug down the road. This was no small chain (logging chain)but the weight mixed with the asphalt ate it up. I was sitting at a stop sigh perpairing myself to cross the 4 lane highway when a cop drove right past me. He looked at me but kept going. I guess a guy in a gator dragging a 15' section of railroad track down the road at 2am raises no red flags.
So as I'm crossing the highway the chain snapped (oh shucks ).. two lanes are blocked with the rail road track and a car could come at anytime. Imagine hitting a railroad track that's across the road at 65mph. Someone would get hurt an off to jail for me. This whole thing started to seem like a real bad idea.
I came up with that crazy strength that mothers use to lift cars off of there kids and managed to get the chain attached again and was able to get it out of the road.

Once across the road I decided to drag it down the shoulder n the grass. In the grass it worked like a plow and ripped a trench 2 miles long to my house. This is when I felt the head gasket go...still driveable and made it home.
That went so well I decided to get another section so I loaded back up and headed out. Must have been close to 3:00am by now.
About 1.5 miles from the house wouldn't u know that cop showed up. Judas Priest blasting on my radio and a huge chain in the bed. After asking me what the hell I was doing he then he shook his head at me and told me to go home. Actually he said (boy u better go home) big black cop deep south accent and a baritone voice. You know home is where I went,I'll take home over jail any day.
So I parked the gator and it has sat there since. The rail road track is still sitting where I left it with the chain around it to this day.

Back to present day. Once I aired up the tires I had the wife pull it with the 4x2 gator while I steered it and moved it to my ( work area) aka where ever my tools are that day.


LMAO :-)
Up here that cop woulda stopped and spanked you. The terrorist state here wants money real bad to pay for all those illegal immigrants crossing the border in Quebec.
As for that 4x2 Gator --- apparently you buy and sell stuff to make money. You don't buy stuff to sell to fix crap you bought before. Fix what you got --- with what you got. As for re-using head gaskets, well I do that all the time. It works fine with a little red silicone. With regards to that blown head gasket you got there I would run a straight edge on that head and block to make sure it is not warped.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
They love there tickets and fines down here too. I have good luck in general because I'm respectful. Yes sir ,no sir, I have a saying. You don't cuss at the cops until u are on u way to jail.

So some of what I thought was pitting was the very bottom layer of rust. Still have pitting and not feeling as confident but in for a penny ,in for a pound. I will use ur suggestion with the head gasket but just to check compression. If compression seems sort of OK I'll buy a gasket. I will check the head and block as well. I scoped the other cylinder and saw no rust in it.
It's all psylogical but I have a hard time putting more money into something then I paid for it to start with. I know that's nuts but it's how I'm wired.
All in all 500$ to rebuild it is not bad and I know eventually that's the rout I'll go. I'm just effing around with it right now,,I know you can understand that.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I ask "why did that head gasket blow ??"
That don't happen just because it feels like it. Something wrong. Check that head and cylinder for warp.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
I will check for warp. Apparently these engines are prone to blowing a head gasket. Some say the cooling system isn't up to hard use. Others say the cooling system was not properly purged. It blew on the exhaust side.
I will add an oil cooler and a in line thermostat housing.
But remember I was working it hard when it blew also.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
This pic is the last time I cleaned it up. It's now sitting with more naval jelly and may let it sit over night. My ball hone is too big so I used a 3 arm stone home but worked it by hand and only did it a few times so far. Didn't check the head or block yet but will first thing tomorrow.
Not sure how much of my pitting is remaining rust and how much is pitting.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:44 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
Forgot the pic


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
There is no coming back from that. I know it and the more I look at the pic the more I realize it. So now I'm thinking I'll pull it out tomorrow and call it done for now.
This may change by tomorrow but that's where my head is now.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:24 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I think that cylinder is good enough. Hone it and call it good.
My issue is actually with that head. Those valve seats may be pooched. Looks like the valve seats may need some touch up in my opinion, but hard to tell from the pics you posted.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:59 am 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
That's it then. Good enough for u is good enough for me.
I appreciate the positive motivation. It keeps me going some times.
I'm gonna pull the valves and clean up the seats and put new valve seals in.
Looks like rain here all day so won't get much done.

Update.
Just cleaned up the naval jelly I let sit over night and it's as good as its gonna get it. I will clean it up a little with some super fine grit sandpaper


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:05 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee Florida
So I hit it with some 2000 grit sand paper and oil.
I then hit it with the hone.
My tolerances for the bore is showing to be 2.994 to 2.995 for standard boar and 2.997 for a max.
When I measure mine I'm getting 2.930 but that's at the top. I don't feel a ridge but that little I may not feel.
So i have 90% of the pitting gone. What's left though is a large area at the low area.
So I'm debating which is better
A large pitted area or getting close to tolerances.
I'm thinking if I can reduce the pitted area by 50% I'd be happy.
Any input is appreciated


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:07 pm 
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When looking at the piston the shinny ring is the original boar. The dark half moon shape area is a large mild pit


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
FloridaEdd wrote:
When looking at the piston the shinny ring is the original boar. The dark half moon shape area is a large mild pit


The only other thing you could do is hone the poo out of it and hope the rings will make up for it with the "spring" that is built into the rings. Hard to tell by those pics how bad it is. It looks like that bad spot is at about the mid point of the stroke. So I am thinking there would be some loss but at least it is not near the top where most of the compression is happening. I bet you could hone it out. You choose, your looking at it.


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