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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
Take the carb apart and clean it it has an internal fuel filter that requires disassembly


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Here is the intake plate marked to match the crank...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
shoubadaba wrote:
Take the carb apart and clean it it has an internal fuel filter that requires disassembly


Yep, it does have the little thimble-looking fuel filter in there, and there was some garbage in it.

<paragraph moved to my build thread>

Still planning on opening up the 580 RV intake plate to match the Engine. Just reading, reading, reading, and asking, asking, asking to make sure I'm not doing anything retarded. If the larger openings worked with the dual carb plate, no reason why it wouldn't work with the single carb plate. No-brainer that jetting will be changed. Its just a matter of getting one side a mirror image of the other for balanced flow. Talking to our air filter lab tech, and we can test each side of the intake on the filter test stand to see if flow is matched. If my math is right, max TOTAL flow at say 7800rpm is ~50cfm. Put a flow meter on each side, flow 50cfm through the carb-intake-plate assembly, and measure exit flow and restriction on either side. We'll see! Maybe even do a 470 stock plate vs 580 stock to see the difference, and then go from there. Then can do a before vs. after flow test. Will cost me some beer and donuts, and may take a while -- he's a busy guy! lol


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Aw hell, decided to super clean the carb, and ended up snapping the small screw that holds the needle float shaft. May end up just replacing it. Plus the thing is not as clean as I thought, andhas 2 too many redneck coats of rattle can on it. <sigh>


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Aw hell, decided to super clean the carb, and ended up snapping the small screw that holds the needle float shaft. May end up just replacing it. Plus the thing is not as clean as I thought, andhas 2 too many redneck coats of rattle can on it. <sigh>


Before trying to remove any screws like that take a really small hammer and brass punch and give each screw a good solid focused smack before you try to turn you want to shock the threads reduces chances of snapping screws by about 95%


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Soaked it down with PB and sat for a few days, but still snapped it. At least I have a "parts carb" now! lol. Gonna pickup a new one on evilBay.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
More spendy, less re-buildy...>:(

New 38mm SBN carb in-route. Seller was asking $125 + s/h, but I offered $77 + s/h with a good story and got it. It's a new-engine-take-off carb, very clean, no corrosion, etc. I'll still take it apart for inspection and of course jet, but know I won't have any gremlins in the carb.

There's another brand new one on evilBay for $75 + $11 s/h but its the one without a choke butterfly (pop-off instead). Yes, the pop-off ones prob flow a little better, but I like having a mechanical choke.

Really wanted a clean 40mm to max out the flow offered by the intake port and crank port sizes. but I really don't think power is going to be an issue...on a 467 Engine using a 580 intake/carb. ;) And didn't want to shell out $120+ for a used 40mm one.


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Dans_New-take-off Mikuni 38mm SBN.JPG
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Did some more thinking last night about the single-carb rotary intake plate ports. The math tells me I don't need change them at all to get the same air/fuel delivery. Hear me out and tell me if I'm crazy or not...

In the dual-carb setup, each cylinder has a dedicated round-slide carb. In this case, it was a 34mm carb.
Mik 34mm carb ID = 34mm = 1.339"
Dual carb intake port ID = 40.5mm = 1.596"
Hence, the limiting factor is the carb ID of 1.339".

In a single carb setup, there is one butterfly carb which each cylinder will draw from individually. In essence, from a fuel/air delivery perspective its no different than having one dedicated carb per cylinder.
Mik 38mm carb ID = 38mm = 1.50"
Single carb inake port ID = 34.6mm = 1.364"
Hence, the limiting factor here is the intake port ID of 1.364".

THUS, theoretically the single carb setup will be marginally increasing air flow with a larger limiting factor with .025" more ID. Convert it all to flow area, and the single carb setup with 38mm carb provides for 4% more flow area. However, there will be some losses for the throttle butterfly in the SeaDoo carb. SO...we can call it a wash.

I will lose about 3-degree duration of timing, but I don't know how that will effect performance until I run the Engine.

Given all that thought and math, I will NOT be doing any expanding of the single intake's rotary ports. I will do some clean-up with the 120 grit flap wheel (casting lines), but that's it. Leaving it no smoother than 120-grit for fuel atomization reasons. If needed, I can do some power mods later.


I do have a choice of two single carb rotary plates to go with. #1 has the oil lines in the "arrow" on the face of the plate. While #2 has the oil lines in the tunnel port. ANY REASON WHY ONE OIL DELIVERY METHOD IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER?


ALSO, the single intake setup I have uses a plastic shell flame-arrestor that's pretty wide & flat. I kinda' like the SeaDoo "box-type" aluminum ones with the Bombardier logo on it. The box-type has a 3-4" round boss on the side that would be perfect for a tube and remote air filter. I can pick one up for $12 locally.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
I might be thinking outside the bun to but couldn't opening them up lower the intake velocity and potentially cost performance? Especially bottom end? I'd think the carb would be the limiting factor? Might be crazy talk to :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Fatcat wrote:
I might be thinking outside the bun to but couldn't opening them up lower the intake velocity and potentially cost performance? Especially bottom end? I'd think the carb would be the limiting factor? Might be crazy talk to :-)


Could very well be true. I didn't even take it to 'that' level of two-stroke Engine math.

There are no good reasons to open them up, so that's why I'm not going to alter them. :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Made a bold move to expedite the Engine rebuild. Against the wife's wishes, I brought the Engine and parts IN THE HOUSE this morning so they can warm up and be ready to work on tomorrow morning IN THE WELL-LIT, HEATED BASEMENT. Don't know why I didn't do this earlier! :shock: It was 10'F this morning and windy as hell, which makes my barn a big 'fridge.

All I know if that I need to get this Engine done, so it can go into the new buggy project. :-) And the new carb will be here Monday.

Also picked up an UBER CLEAN single-carb rotary plate (cleaner/smoother than the ones I have) for...wait for it...wait for it...$0.99 on evilBay.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Made a bold move to expedite the Engine rebuild. Against the wife's wishes, I brought the Engine and parts IN THE HOUSE this morning so they can warm up and be ready to work on tomorrow morning IN THE WELL-LIT, HEATED BASEMENT. Don't know why I didn't do this earlier! :shock: It was 10'F this morning and windy as hell, which makes my barn a big 'fridge.

All I know if that I need to get this Engine done, so it can go into the new buggy project. :-) And the new carb will be here Monday.

Also picked up an UBER CLEAN single-carb rotary plate (cleaner/smoother than the ones I have) for...wait for it...wait for it...$0.99 on evilBay.


Crap the basement is fair game. Tell her it could be on the dining room table if she likes. :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Fatcat wrote:
DMoneyAllstar wrote:
Made a bold move to expedite the Engine rebuild. Against the wife's wishes, I brought the Engine and parts IN THE HOUSE this morning so they can warm up and be ready to work on tomorrow morning IN THE WELL-LIT, HEATED BASEMENT. Don't know why I didn't do this earlier! :shock: It was 10'F this morning and windy as hell, which makes my barn a big 'fridge.

All I know if that I need to get this Engine done, so it can go into the new buggy project. :-) And the new carb will be here Monday.

Also picked up an UBER CLEAN single-carb rotary plate (cleaner/smoother than the ones I have) for...wait for it...wait for it...$0.99 on evilBay.


Crap the basement is fair game. Tell her it could be on the dining room table if she likes. :-)



LOL...its all sitting on the dining room table now on 2 pizza boxes. I ran it all in there after she left this morning. And she won't be home until after I get there. :-)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Top end is back together. Just need to install the oil pump, check mag side seal, and put a new pull rope on the recoil. New carb arrived yesterday and is super clean, like new. Very pleased!

By the way...the barnyard window panels and valences are yours if you want them, but you have to take ALL SEVEN SETS. lol


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:51 am
Posts: 2703
Location: Upland, Ca
you buggy is going to rip with that Engine. It looks purdy


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Finally got the recoil rebuilt and the rest of the peripherals on.

I had to make myself a flywheel holder for removing the nut. Was nice to finally get the welder out. Haven't used it since before Halloween! With some help from my friend leverage and the pulley-remover set, that flywheel flew off there like its been ont here since 1991. Don't underestimate the power of the taper! lol Stator, flywheel interior, and crank seal were IMMACULATE. I left them all as-is and re-assembled. I need to find the little plastic insert piece that goes in the hole on the case above the flywheel, as the face of the flywheel had a little corrosion on it.

Tore down the recoil and cleaned up the housing with bead blast, soak in carb cleaner (old paint was REALLY on there), more bead blast, wire wheel, #000 steel wool, and then 4-coats of heat-cured clear. Re-assembled including a pull-rope replacement. The starter rope replacement was a BREEZE. I used a #8 74" rope from Helix Racing Products. They were liquidating them on evilBay a while back and I bought 3-4 of them for like $4 each. Perfect length, and right strength. The whole recoil rebuild was extremely easy and intuitive. Only special tool you'll need is a pair of snap-ring spreaders.

Got the oil pump swapped. The pump on my Skidoo setup worked great and is in better shape than the Seadoo one. Same exact pumps EXCEPT for the plastic drive gear. The Skidoo gear is .010" bigger in diameter (2.25" Skidoo vs 2.15" Sseadoo) and the Skidoo one will not fit in the single-carb SeaDoo housing. I also had to steal the throttle arm linkage off the Skidoo setup for actuating the oil pump. Gave it a shot of bead blast and its clean and beautiful like the new carb. Stole the oil pump cable elbow from the old pump, too. Just need to find my e-clip stash and get a new clip on it (hence the note to myself in the Engine photo).


I ditched the flat-head screwdriver head bolts that held the Skidoo intake plate on, and replaced with hex-bolts.

Then I assembled the SeaDoo spark-arrestor and intake housing. But...I want to get the 'other' SeaDoo intake box for attaching an air filter too. Not too much dust out on the water to require a filter. But in a buggy, air filtration is a MUST-HAVE.

Compression and leakdown test are all that remain and of course all of the tanks, electrical, etc when it gets fit to the buggy. Intake plate, rod bearings, and rings are lubed, so I want simply give the rope a slow pull every few days to keep everything alive and well until I get the Engine mounted in the buggy.


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File comment: Clean as the day it left Austria!
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File comment: New rope on top
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
More pics...


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File comment: DIY stator holder tool
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File comment: Pulley puller + stator holder = easy!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
For anyone needing it, here is the wiring diagram for the sled this powerplant came out of...

http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/download/file.php?id=39837


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Updates?


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