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Pilot not running right at top end
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17418		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Duneit [ Thu May 18, 2017 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Pilot not running right at top end
A little history on this Pilot. Bought it about a year ago. Had first opportunity to ride it last summer. It ran excellent for 6 days straight. On the 7th day it started cutting out bad at top end. It came with a manual lever on top of carb for the choke. I checked the compression and it was at 130. Took it to the shop and had a new top end installed. Now it's at 156 psi cold. Also bought an OEM choke cable from member here and had it installed. It had a 138 main jet and I rejetted to factory 142. Clip is on 2nd ring on needle. It still cuts out at top end just not nearly as bad but now has a low end bog after its warmed up. I'm thinking there's a reason previous owner removed factory choke assembly. What I've tried so far: bought brand new OEM fuel filter and fuel pump from member here. Tried new coil. New CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition). New spark plug and wire all to no avail. After talking to Randman on the phone he's thinking possibly worn out carb and previous owner was compensating with choke set up he had. Any input would be greatly appreciated and if anyone has a factory carb that's in good working order let me know. If a new carb doesn't fix it I'll be selling it.
Thanks in advance!
Author:  canadian oddy [ Thu May 18, 2017 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Duneit wrote:
A little history on this Pilot. Bought it about a year ago. Had first opportunity to ride it last summer. It ran excellent for 6 days straight. On the 7th day it started cutting out bad at top end. It came with a manual lever on top of carb for the choke. I checked the compression and it was at 130. Took it to the shop and had a new top end installed. Now it's at 156 psi cold. Also bought an OEM choke cable from member here and had it installed. It had a 138 main jet and I rejetted to factory 142. Clip is on 2nd ring on needle. It still cuts out at top end just not nearly as bad but now has a low end bog after its warmed up. I'm thinking there's a reason previous owner removed factory choke assembly. What I've tried so far: bought brand new OEM fuel filter and fuel pump from member here. Tried new coil. New CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition). New spark plug and wire all to no avail. After talking to Randman on the phone he's thinking possibly worn out carb and previous owner was compensating with choke set up he had. Any input would be greatly appreciated and if anyone has a factory carb that's in good working order let me know. If a new carb doesn't fix it I'll be selling it.
Thanks in advance!


Is it possible the choke is not fully seated when it is set to the closed position ??
Floats set to the correct height ??
Float valve closes ??
Author:  Duneit [ Thu May 18, 2017 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
canadian oddy wrote:
Duneit wrote:
A little history on this Pilot. Bought it about a year ago. Had first opportunity to ride it last summer. It ran excellent for 6 days straight. On the 7th day it started cutting out bad at top end. It came with a manual lever on top of carb for the choke. I checked the compression and it was at 130. Took it to the shop and had a new top end installed. Now it's at 156 psi cold. Also bought an OEM choke cable from member here and had it installed. It had a 138 main jet and I rejetted to factory 142. Clip is on 2nd ring on needle. It still cuts out at top end just not nearly as bad but now has a low end bog after its warmed up. I'm thinking there's a reason previous owner removed factory choke assembly. What I've tried so far: bought brand new OEM fuel filter and fuel pump from member here. Tried new coil. New CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition). New spark plug and wire all to no avail. After talking to Randman on the phone he's thinking possibly worn out carb and previous owner was compensating with choke set up he had. Any input would be greatly appreciated and if anyone has a factory carb that's in good working order let me know. If a new carb doesn't fix it I'll be selling it.
Thanks in advance!


Is it possible the choke is not fully seated when it is set to the closed position ??
Floats set to the correct height ??
Float valve closes ??


I guess all those are possibilities. I'm no mechanic though. I'd rather replace the whole carb if that's the issue. My toys sit at my vacation home so I don't have much time while here to work on them.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Thu May 18, 2017 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
I got another question.
When the machine is sitting there idling is the carb spitting or does it idle fine ??
Author:  Duneit [ Fri May 19, 2017 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
canadian oddy wrote:
I got another question.
When the machine is sitting there idling is the carb spitting or does it idle fine ??


The pilot runs great when cold at idle and to mid range. Just at top end it cuts out a bit. It's totally rideable just not perfect. No fuel spits out or anything.
Author:  Pilot bird [ Fri May 19, 2017 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Did you check/inspect the reeds for wear or damage or did the shop that did the top end check them?
Author:  Duneit [ Fri May 19, 2017 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Pilot bird wrote:
Did you check/inspect the reeds for wear or damage or did the shop that did the top end check them?


No. That's one thing that I didn't do. That would cause top end stumble? I'll change those when I swap the carb out
Author:  canadian oddy [ Fri May 19, 2017 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
That's the reason I asked the question -- reeds.
If its not spitting fuel at idle I would think the reeds are good.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Fri May 19, 2017 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Cutting out at the top end tells me a few things.
It could be ignition related (sparkplug) but I am sure you changed a million of those by now.
It sounds more like fuel delivery issue. Wrong float level or it's running low on fuel.

Edit: I might be something simple like a loose/damaged vacuum line for the fuel pump. Verify you are getting the required fuel flow rate. That's real easy to do and don't take long.

Well off now for our first ride of the year :-) . Hope the snow is high enough. Gota test my new homemade intakes :-) .
Author:  Duneit [ Fri May 19, 2017 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
canadian oddy wrote:
Cutting out at the top end tells me a few things.
It could be ignition related (sparkplug) but I am sure you changed a million of those by now.
It sounds more like fuel delivery issue. Wrong float level or it's running low on fuel.

Edit: I might be something simple like a loose/damaged vacuum line for the fuel pump. Verify you are getting the required fuel flow rate. That's real easy to do and don't take long.

Well off now for our first ride of the year :-) . Hope the snow is high enough. Gota test my new homemade intakes :-) .


I replaced plug, wire, coil, CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), fuel pump, fuel filter. Shop said reeds were good. Gonna try a different carb. If that doesn't work it'll be for sale. Actually gonna sell 2 and buy another rzr. I can take my rzr to a shop when it has an issue.
Mechanic at shop thinks if not carb then possibly stator. Something I don't have the skills for.
Author:  daddyrat [ Tue May 23, 2017 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Duneit wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Cutting out at the top end tells me a few things.
It could be ignition related (sparkplug) but I am sure you changed a million of those by now.
It sounds more like fuel delivery issue. Wrong float level or it's running low on fuel.

Edit: I might be something simple like a loose/damaged vacuum line for the fuel pump. Verify you are getting the required fuel flow rate. That's real easy to do and don't take long.

Well off now for our first ride of the year :-) . Hope the snow is high enough. Gota test my new homemade intakes :-) .


I replaced plug, wire, coil, CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), fuel pump, fuel filter. Shop said reeds were good. Gonna try a different carb. If that doesn't work it'll be for sale. Actually gonna sell 2 and buy another rzr. I can take my rzr to a shop when it has an issue.
Mechanic at shop thinks if not carb then possibly stator. Something I don't have the skills for.


Duneit, I feel your pain. I bought a "Ebay" Pilot last fall. Advertised as runs great until I paid "top dollar" for it and than Ohio owner said it had a jetting issue. Compression low at 135, 139mm keihin, powerpros rev pipe, clutch. I have no top end either. It has a clean idle and mid range but falls on its face on main jet. I have jetted the main jet every which way from 158 to 195. I have swapped the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), coil, regulator and plugs. Still no go.

I have this week off from work and determined to make it right. I found a old stock keihin 34mm carb in my garage from a old 1986 Honda TRX250r I had years ago. I plan to swap that in today and hope for a change. My problem is I live in town and have to trailer 15 minutes to do a jetting run. The constant carb pulling and drive out of town has really drawn this process out for me. I have been working on this for over a month now. Pain in the butt. I sense your desperation with your purchase and hope a carb fixes both our problems...
Author:  Duneit [ Tue May 23, 2017 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
daddyrat wrote:
Duneit wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Cutting out at the top end tells me a few things.
It could be ignition related (sparkplug) but I am sure you changed a million of those by now.
It sounds more like fuel delivery issue. Wrong float level or it's running low on fuel.

Edit: I might be something simple like a loose/damaged vacuum line for the fuel pump. Verify you are getting the required fuel flow rate. That's real easy to do and don't take long.

Well off now for our first ride of the year :-) . Hope the snow is high enough. Gota test my new homemade intakes :-) .


I replaced plug, wire, coil, CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), fuel pump, fuel filter. Shop said reeds were good. Gonna try a different carb. If that doesn't work it'll be for sale. Actually gonna sell 2 and buy another rzr. I can take my rzr to a shop when it has an issue.
Mechanic at shop thinks if not carb then possibly stator. Something I don't have the skills for.


Duneit, I feel your pain. I bought a "Ebay" Pilot last fall. Advertised as runs great until I paid "top dollar" for it and than Ohio owner said it had a jetting issue. Compression low at 135, 139mm keihin, powerpros rev pipe, clutch. I have no top end either. It has a clean idle and mid range but falls on its face on main jet. I have jetted the main jet every which way from 158 to 195. I have swapped the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), coil, regulator and plugs. Still no go.

I have this week off from work and determined to make it right. I found a old stock keihin 34mm carb in my garage from a old 1986 Honda TRX250r I had years ago. I plan to swap that in today and hope for a change. My problem is I live in town and have to trailer 15 minutes to do a jetting run. The constant carb pulling and drive out of town has really drawn this process out for me. I have been working on this for over a month now. Pain in the butt. I sense your desperation with your purchase and hope a carb fixes both our problems...


Hopefully you get yours figured out. I found a shop here that I'm taking mine to today. I'll post finding. Fortunately I wasn't mislead when purchasing this one. It ran great for about 40 hours.
Author:  Kuma [ Tue May 23, 2017 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
if you have multiple pilots, start swapping some parts one by one, coil complete with wire, ECU, maybe even the stator, once you know you have the issue identified then you can get a replacement.
also did you do a plug chop while at the top end?
how is your air filter, you may have already answered these questions, I'm just skimming through the threads.
my Pilot was running like the choke was on, pulled the airbox lid and it ran perfect, then did an airbox lid mod and it has been great! I could definitely check the reeds, it's not difficult and you can rule that out without taking someone else's word for it, also if you don't know when they were changed last, you may want to go ahead and put new ones in for good measure.
Author:  Duneit [ Tue May 23, 2017 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Kuma wrote:
if you have multiple pilots, start swapping some parts one by one, coil complete with wire, ECU, maybe even the stator, once you know you have the issue identified then you can get a replacement.
also did you do a plug chop while at the top end?
how is your air filter, you may have already answered these questions, I'm just skimming through the threads.
my Pilot was running like the choke was on, pulled the airbox lid and it ran perfect, then did an airbox lid mod and it has been great! I could definitely check the reeds, it's not difficult and you can rule that out without taking someone else's word for it, also if you don't know when they were changed last, you may want to go ahead and put new ones in for good measure.


I've replaced everything you mentioned. Took it to a shop today. Mechanic fires it up and rips around their couple acres of flat ground and calls me and says he thinks it's just loaded up. He thought it ran great. I told him take it out on the Dunes and ride it hard then call me back.
We'll see.........
Author:  hoser [ Tue May 23, 2017 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Unscrew the spark plug boot from the spark plug wire cut off about 1/4" of the wire and screw the spark plug boot back on the spark plug wire test ride again see if its better.

Any idea what elevation the former owner was riding?

Try riding with the lid off the airbox?
Author:  Duneit [ Tue May 23, 2017 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
hoser wrote:
Unscrew the spark plug boot from the spark plug wire cut off about 1/4" of the wire and screw the spark plug boot back on the spark plug wire test ride again see if its better.

Any idea what elevation the former owner was riding?

Try riding with the lid off the airbox?


The Pilot ran perfect for about 40 hours then started cutting out at top end. I replaced wire and coil from a perfectly good running Pilot. Tried taking air box lid off. It only cuts out at top end under load (I only ride sand), and only after it's warmed up real good. About 5 minutes of riding in the dunes. Runs awesome when cold from bottom to top.
Previous owner rode from 0 to 3000 feet. He rode it here at the dunes many times. We're at sea level with year round Temps typically between 50-70 degrees
Author:  canadian oddy [ Wed May 24, 2017 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Duneit wrote:
hoser wrote:
Unscrew the spark plug boot from the spark plug wire cut off about 1/4" of the wire and screw the spark plug boot back on the spark plug wire test ride again see if its better.

Any idea what elevation the former owner was riding?

Try riding with the lid off the airbox?


The Pilot ran perfect for about 40 hours then started cutting out at top end. I replaced wire and coil from a perfectly good running Pilot. Tried taking air box lid off. It only cuts out at top end under load (I only ride sand), and only after it's warmed up real good. About 5 minutes of riding in the dunes. Runs awesome when cold from bottom to top.
Previous owner rode from 0 to 3000 feet. He rode it here at the dunes many times. We're at sea level with year round Temps typically between 50-70 degrees


Fuel.
Just screams fuel to me.
"ran perfect for about 40hrs" -- "It only cuts out at top end under load" -- No fuel or too much fuel.
1) Could be the same problem I had with one of my oddy's. Pump crap. Delivered just enough fuel for idle and mid range. Then at top end Poofkaboom. It gave me fits.
2) Floats set wrong or damaged (hole in it and it fills with gas)
3) Vacuum line for pump sucking air
4) Fuel pump crap and not delivering enough now

Just my two bits
Author:  canadian oddy [ Sat May 27, 2017 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
It could also be like a daddyrat issue. His wasn't cutting out but he said it was a dog at the top end.
You could have a small air leak. An air leak will be same as fuel issue (not enough fuel).

Anymore on this yet ??
Author:  Duneit [ Sat May 27, 2017 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
canadian oddy wrote:
It could also be like a daddyrat issue. His wasn't cutting out but he said it was a dog at the top end.
You could have a small air leak. An air leak will be same as fuel issue (not enough fuel).

Anymore on this yet ??


It's going to be looked at next week. Should have an answer then.
Author:  Duneit [ Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Shop finally got around to looking at my Pilot and determined it needs a stator. It has intermittent spark at high rpm. Where can I get one and what gaskets etc do I need?
Thanks!
Author:  Duneit [ Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Duneit wrote:
Shop finally got around to looking at my Pilot and determined it needs a stator. It has intermittent spark at high rpm. Where can I get one and what gaskets etc do I need?
Thanks!

Got new staor from Nick.

Thanks!!!
Author:  Kuma [ Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
off topic but...
going to Pismo , I'm headed out the 18th staying til the 24th, there will be a fre people from the forum there, not sure how many pilots and odysseys, anyone and everyone is more than welcome to join in the camp.
Author:  redskinman [ Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Duneit wrote:
Duneit wrote:
Shop finally got around to looking at my Pilot and determined it needs a stator. It has intermittent spark at high rpm. Where can I get one and what gaskets etc do I need?
Thanks!

Got new staor from Nick.

Thanks!!!

So did that fix problem?
Author:  Duneit [ Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Will find out next week when I get it
Author:  Duneit [ Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pilot not running right at top end
Pilot now runs like a champ. New stator was what it needed. Thanks for all the help!
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