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 Post subject: FL400 dirty radiator.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
Removed my radiator to clean. This thing does not look the best, but should cleanup well. Anyone have any advise on the best method to clean a radiator? I have heard soaking in Purple Power works well. The Fl400 radiator is aluminum so need to careful what is used to clean. What's the best type of paint to use on a radiator?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Location: Chicago
I use hot soapy water in my shop sink then flush every way you can inside and out followed by compressed air on the fins being careful not to damage the fins with the air.

Shine a bright light in the fins you will see dirt that will not come out with the water or air so I take a tooth pic and carefully push the dirt out.

You can scrub around the fittings with a soft brush.

Pay special attention to the sealing area where the cap seals ensure its clean smooth also clean the cap make sure to clean both sides of the rubber seal.

Google radiator paint or painting a radiator to see what works?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
Thanks For the reply H. I called purple power and they do not recommend using thier producer on aluminum. Warm soapy water it is.

The tube in the overflow tank was plugged with rusty muddy crap. And I mean plugged. I could not stick a rod through it. I had to hammer it through. Can't find a new tube so it looks like I will have to make one. It is steel tube 5/16 OD and 4-5/8 long.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
rmesser wrote:
Thanks For the reply H. I called purple power and they do not recommend using thier producer on aluminum. Warm soapy water it is.

The tube in the overflow tank was plugged with rusty muddy crap. And I mean plugged. I could not stick a rod through it. I had to hammer it through. Can't find a new tube so it looks like I will have to make one. It is steel tube 5/16 OD and 4-5/8 long.


What the.. have you ever serviced your cooling system? Nasty nasty.

Going by memory on that tube you can take a flaring tool and flare the end out as seen on the factory tube.

FYI I drain and replace my coolant every year on ATV's and RV, this reminds me I need to change the anti freeze on both my tractors this year.

For coolant I use Distilled water mixed with coolant 50/50 this makes 2 gallons then add 1-2 drops of dawn dish soap to each gallon and 1 Teaspoon of baking soda to each gallon and shake well.

Soap breaks the surface tension of the water makes liquids bond cling to metal better (like water wetter stuff does) the baking soda neutralizes acids in the coolant system been doing this for 30 + years.

Good time to change automotive coolant is before it reaches 1/2 volt DC , you can test by removing the radiator cap (when cold) and putting a volt meter on low range and DC voltage and connecting the negative (black) to the negative of your battery then putting the positive (Red) probe in the coolant inside the radiator not touching metal, read the volts I have seen them as high as 1 volt DC.

I remember in the early 80's they had many problems with the autos computers giving problems because the coolant voltage was too high (usually approaching 1 volt the problems start) that's when I started with the soap and baking soda treatment.

Show me pics of everything after you clean and flush.

Wonder what the inside of your Engine coolant passages looks like is it possible to remove the hose from the water pump and see if you have gunk by the impeller in your Pilots current state of disassembly? Had the head off or the top end apart recently ?

Any gunk on the inside of the hoses?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
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Location: East Peoria IL
This radiator is off of my second pilot which is a little rougher than my nicer pilot. I did change the fluid once a couple years ago, but I did not do any additional cleaning, just drain and refilled. I wish I would have taken the time then to clean it up.

When I removed the overflow tank and dumped it out the first thing I saw was black flakes in the collar. Was worried I had a bad head gasket, but the fluid in radiator was clean. Then I realized the black specs were from the steel tubes in the tank. Odd how the tube rusted above the low fill line, but not in the coolant. See picture.

I replaced the tubes with 5/16 and 3/16 steel line from the auto parts store. The fit is excellent and it was already flared. The pieces I bought were 8 inches long with fittings. I cut to length and removed the fittings. It is coated so it should last awhile.

The hoses look pretty clean inside. I do not see and buildup. I will CSI the Engine cooling passages as best I can. Pictures to follow.

I find it strange to see so much crystallized antifreeze on the outside of the radiator. It makes me think that it was leaking. I have soaked in hot water and soap and you would not believe the amount of dirt that came out of the radiator fins. I have not finished cleaning the fins yet with tooth picks. If you look at the photo closely, you can now see through the fins.

My next step is to back flush the radiator to ensure the tubes are free of crud. Then I plan to pressure test it. I ordered a new radiator cap and temp sensor Orings and a new Oring for the overflow tank cap from service Honda. If she holds pressure then I will apply a coat of paint and she should be good for a few more years.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:49 am 
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Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
Cleaning out fins with a tooth pick and found a hole next to the fan temp switch. Looks repairable. Just not sure how to repair a aluminum radiator. Anyone have any experience?

I wonder if there is a gasket around the tank? If so welding that hole will surely damage the Oring.???


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I have welded aluminum and it must be real clean, and even then there is porosity. When welding aluminum the real question is how much porosity is acceptable. In your case I would think that the radiator would probably have to be taken apart to weld. I would suggest clean that damaged part as best you can with a wire brush and a dremel. Wipe area with alcohol or brake cleaner. Then reach in the threaded hole with a piece a duct tape and cover that corroded hole from the inside. Then JB Weld it.
What do you guys think ??


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
Soaking in a vinegar bath. This should dissolve most of the grud. There is still a lot of dirt coming out of the fins. This pilot came from a farm in Indiana. You can see all the plant material floating in the water. The frot Control arms are polished from driving through the weeds. I'm sure this stirred up a lot of plant seeds and such, getting sucked right into the radiator.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
canadian oddy wrote:
I have welded aluminum and it must be real clean, and even then there is porosity. When welding aluminum the real question is how much porosity is acceptable. In your case I would think that the radiator would probably have to be taken apart to weld. I would suggest clean that damaged part as best you can with a wire brush and a dremel. Wipe area with alcohol or brake cleaner. Then reach in the threaded hole with a piece a duct tape and cover that corroded hole from the inside. Then JB Weld it.
What do you guys think ??


I was thinking the same thing about being able to reach the inside. I may talk to a radiator shop as they have the experience.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
This looks like an option.....https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y-iw3BiR4 ... e=youtu.be


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
rmesser wrote:


NOOOOOOOOOOOO
That shyt don't work like advertised. Everything must be super clean and perfect, and you need skill and luck. One boo boo and your rad is gone. Forget it.
Your first clue is "Harbour Freight"


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:35 am 
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Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
I used the aluminum weld rods once to patch an aluminum pipe on a remote control boat and shocked myself how easy the first hole was to patch. After that it all went down hill. Burned it up basically chasing damage I'd caused. After all was said and done was way worse then when I started.
If I were to ever attempt it again I'd spend a lot of time practicing.

I'd try the JB Weld method. I've used it to fix tanks on plastic radiator tanks and it's held fine.
It comes down to what is in ur budget right now. If u got the money take it to a welding or radiator shop. Couldn't cost too much but I don't know.
Option 2 is clean it early good down to bear metal and make sure to leave the bare metal roughed up.
I'd insert a ball of JB weld inside with ur finger and mash it into the hole. Don't mash the crap out of it u need some around the edges it help support it. While holding ur finger inside mash what is now being pushed out of the hole, don't mash too much u don't want it paper thin.
I'd let it sit and dry as long as possible before use.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
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Location: East Peoria IL
I appreciate all the help but it looks like my hopes of saving this radiator are gone. I gently poked along the tank looking for soft spots. Seems like every place there was crystallized antifreeze I could poke through. So it was definitely leaking. I'm amazed how little force it took to break through the tank wall. Too much white rust on the inside if the radiator to ever get any kind of weld to work. It would be like trying to weld a rusted out muffler, just not enough base material left.

I purchased a used radiator. Hopefully it is in good shape.

Wish I would have cleaned it up years ago before it got this bad!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
Wow that sucks cant say I have ever seen a Pilot radiator that bad before the cooling system was not maintained, wonder what the rest of the cooling system looks like inside still running the coolant loop through the factory carb?

Keep old radiator for spare parts, cap, filler neck, hose connections etc. ??


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
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Location: East Peoria IL
I wish I would have saved the antifreeze. Believ it or not it looked pretty good. I would say it was definatly neglected over the last 28 years. I wonder if I could have saved it if I would have cleaned it up sooner. The new radiator should be delivered today.

The carb lines are hooked up. Hope there are no issues there. Looking at all the hoses they look pretty clean. Hope to work on it soon, but have some other projects going on also.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
The radiator I purchased is installed. Inside and out is clean. So clean all I had to do was install it. Even used the aftermarket radiator cap that came with it and the temp sensors. I'll save my new cap for future use. Coolant reservoir tank has new tubes and is clean.

The carburetor cooling passages were plugged with crystalized coolant. I removed the carb and cleaned the passage ways and hoses. This carb has not had any heat from the coolant in a long time. I wonder if it will run any different now that the coolant can flow and heat the carb.

Anyone know why Honda went to the expense of heating the carb? What is the technical reason? The idea was not to cool the carb was it?????

I removed the hoses to the head and they were so clean that I did not feel it necessary to remove the water pump cover. I plan on filling with coolant and after a few heat cycles draining it and filling it with fresh coolant again using Hoser's mix with dawn and baking soda.

I hope the temp sensors that came with the new radiator work properly.

Still have to flush the cooling system on the second pilot and the wife's Corolla just hit 100K and is due for a cooling system flush. Oh ya the Polaris 400 also needs flushed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Quote: Anyone know why Honda went to the expense of heating the carb? What is the technical reason? The idea was not to cool the carb was it?????

I was thinking the same thing a long while ago.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
canadian oddy wrote:
Quote: Anyone know why Honda went to the expense of heating the carb? What is the technical reason? The idea was not to cool the carb was it?????

I was thinking the same thing a long while ago.


Bigger bore longer stroke small carb on cool humid days and the carb slide will ice up and a risk of throttle sticking have seen frost form on the 39mm carb of my modified Pilot Engine in the area of the slide more than once.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
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Location: Hope, B.C Canada
hoser wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Quote: Anyone know why Honda went to the expense of heating the carb? What is the technical reason? The idea was not to cool the carb was it?????

I was thinking the same thing a long while ago.


Bigger bore longer stroke small carb on cool humid days and the carb slide will ice up and a risk of throttle sticking have seen frost form on the 39mm carb of my modified Pilot Engine in the area of the slide more than once.


I learn new stuff everyday :-)
I have seen this on air valves in the winter at work but never on a vehicle.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
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Location: Chicago
canadian oddy wrote:
hoser wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Quote: Anyone know why Honda went to the expense of heating the carb? What is the technical reason? The idea was not to cool the carb was it?????

I was thinking the same thing a long while ago.


Bigger bore longer stroke small carb on cool humid days and the carb slide will ice up and a risk of throttle sticking have seen frost form on the 39mm carb of my modified Pilot Engine in the area of the slide more than once.


I learn new stuff everyday :-)
I have seen this on air valves in the winter at work but never on a vehicle.


I removed my carb to bore it from a 32mm to a 33.5mm and left the heating hoses off like the first week I had it :-) Never had a problem your mileage may vary, I am sure Honda didnt go to the expense of heating the carb for nothing.


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