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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Quote: "The original clutch side seal is discontinued and not available but there are compatible sized seals available out there. The original had something special about it, double lipped, or something. He found a compatably sized seal people are using and replaced it. He mentioned the situation and how the new seal probably won't last as long as an original."

He most likely used a double lip seal with a single spring. This is not really a true double lip seal as we are thinking about. The double lip in an oddy has two springs and two lips. Each spring seals each lip to the journal. There was a lot of discussion on the site a long while ago about using these but I did not pay any real attention to the threads because I bought my true double lip seals from England. So I don't know what the out come was. May be someone that fooled around with them will chime in.
Below is my thread on the seals I got from England. By the way they work great and the Engine in my oddy right now has this England seal.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13603&hilit=double+lip+seal

Edit: There is a comment in that thread about Colonial Seals in the USA. If you do need the correct seal after this is all over then I would try those guys first. They seem to have a lot of funky seals no one else seems to have -- and it is American made.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
FloridaEdd wrote:
We're all rooting for you.


Thanks FloridaEdd, I needed that. Thanks to you too Canadian Oddy, in a few weeks I will have owned my troublesome Ohio pilot for 1 year without a single successful ride. I appreciate all your effort trying to steer me to a fix, thanks again... Next step, pressure check.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
I finally found the thread I was looking for. It discusses the "double lip" seal replacement.
Half way down hoser comments on it and says Mudbogger used it on one of his turbo engines, but that must be from another machine other than a pilot. Two down from that mud comments it was working fine.
Near the bottom of that thread I commented on the seals I got from England for the FL350.
Note: the oddy and the pilot have different size double lip seals.
Oddy: #91203-VM0-004 45 X 62 X 8
Pilot: #91203-HEO-003 42 x 65 x 11
Note: the seals I have in my oddy's right now are 45x62x11 (true double lip) and work fine. I don't believe anyone has found a replacement (true double lip) for the Pilot.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=9644&start=0&hilit=double+lip+seal+pilot

Edit: I did check Colonial Seals and Simply bearings in the UK and they don't show the pilot seal or anything even close.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
At least u have two pilots and are able to drive one.
A little story for ya.
I saw my Dakart on ebay a few summers ago and wanted it so bad I could taste it. It sold to someone else and my visions of ripping through the Florida sands faded.
Wouldn't u know it turned back up on ebay about 4 months latter and 1500 miles closer to me.
So I talked with the owner and we struck a deal. At this point I thought I should tell the wife what I was up to and,she was not on board. Well that wasn't an option because in my head I already owned it. I tried to explain to her how it needed nothing and was jam up ready to go. Se wasn't taking the bait,, So after a bunch of lying and deal cutting with the wife I drove 12 hours or so round trip to pick it up. I was so excited.
Now I'm a mechanical guy. Been involved in all types of engines,car mororcycle,heck even weed eaters. I fix almost all my own mechanical issues. So I'm no rookie.
Well as most people all I could see was my beautiful new drakart.
So he started it up and I cruzed it around the truck stop I met him at and just loved it.
This is where I needed a pair of eyes that were not seeing stars and hearts every time the looked at it. But it was just me and home I headed with my new toy.
First time I took it out the drive clutch froze. Figured I needed to know how to rebuild the clutch so no big deal.
But it was a big deal to the wife and the sideways looks started.
I will save you a lot of reading by saying after I rebuilt the clutch everything ,everything had an issue.
I literally replaced every bolt on item on that Engine getting it right.
The money I was spending went up as my approval rating at home went down.
So it's running good but just not like I think it should so I do what I should have done the day I brought it home. Compression test. I knew that you should always do that first but in my tunnel vision I seem to have passed that step.
Failed the compression test. Bad valves. I could have saved myself a lot of time by doing a compression test.
Rebuilt the top and bottom end even had a camshaft custom ground for it. Replaced the turbo and was good to go. Ran like a raped ape.
About 1.5 years later started acting up.started before that but at that point required attention. I spent a week or two going through and checking all the electronics. Bought a new coil,new injectors,checked everything with a voltage meter to be sure everything was within limits ect.
So I do what I should have done right off the bat and that was a compression test. Yep my valves were hanging up. I replaced everything except the valve guides when I rebuilt it.
So here I am now almost a year latter reassembling it.
A couple of take away for ya.
Most sellers lie,I've ridden with Doug you're pilots previous owner and he is a stand up guy which is evident by Tha pilot you purchased from him.
Most of us have bought a problem machine un knowingly weather we admit it or not.
If it was an easy issue to diagnose and repair the previous owner would have done just that. I cringe when I see a advertisement for anything that just needs the carb cleaned or jetted.
There are two ways to deal with a problem machine. Sell it. That's what my previous owner did and that's what the guy he got it from did. The other option is to roll up you're sleeves and just get in there. My thinking was I'll know this machine from the inside out and will make it the machine I thought I was buying.
You're sleeves are already rolled up so we all know which type of person u are. Just stick with it and,when u are totally frustrated go ride you're good one. I didn't have that option.

I just wanted to share this so u know we've all been there,I'm still there.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am
Posts: 2681
Location: NW Ohio / SE Michigan
Tell you what, that's why I love buying "projects" in yard sale form, completely naked & exposed (the project, not me!). Then there are no secrets. I've never bought a running used machine except for a big Exmark zero-turn lawn mower and it turned into a semi-nightmare. Learned too quickly after the deal the seller was notorious for limping broken equipment to the masses.

90% of the time a private seller is selling something b/c it has issues of some kind. 7% of the time they need to sell b/c they need the $. And the other 3% are people who recently upgraded. Shy away from "runs good but needs carb cleaned" or "smokes a little" ads as it translates to "I have no idea why it runs like sh!t" or "this Engine is about to die". It's camouflage for larger issues.

Bottom line = PEOPLE SUCK.

Doesn't make it any easier when it's something with rare / little parts support.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
FloridaEdd wrote:
Most sellers lie,I've ridden with Doug you're pilots previous owner and he is a stand up guy which is evident by Tha pilot you purchased from him.
Most of us have bought a problem machine un knowingly weather we admit it or not.
If it was an easy issue to diagnose and repair the previous owner would have done just that. I cringe when I see a advertisement for anything that just needs the carb cleaned or jetted.
There are two ways to deal with a problem machine. Sell it. That's what my previous owner did and that's what the guy he got it from did. The other option is to roll up you're sleeves and just get in there. My thinking was I'll know this machine from the inside out and will make it the machine I thought I was buying.
You're sleeves are already rolled up so we all know which type of person u are. Just stick with it and,when u are totally frustrated go ride you're good one. I didn't have that option.

I just wanted to share this so u know we've all been there,I'm still there.


Wow, thanks FloridaEdd. I have kept "Ohio guys" phone number and the texts we exchanged during the purchase for this past year. Just this week I had to change phones and debated whether I wanted to call him and raise hell and inform him that "karma" was going to get him. I decided to just let it go and sent back my phone with his number still in it. I suspected he was a victim too since he had a brand new trailer in his garage which indicated to me he planned to keep it. Later the title showed he only had the pilot a month. I brought it home knowing there was a problem but I thought, "It's a 2-stroke, how hard can it be to fix" ... I learned two things from your Drakart story, I should pressure check it next, and your wife was right from the start. :)

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
Update*****

Back to the fricken comet 102c clutch.
Three weeks have gone by and today I was back in the garage. #2 Pilot is still down with the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) at Iron Dogs. The last thing I did to #1 was determine it had failed the leak down test due to the pulse vacuum line for the fuel pump leaking. I replaced the line and put clamps at both ends and the leak down test passed.

This morning, I put the carb back on #1 and trailered it out to where I do jetting runs. I expected to have to try a few jets and than be completely done with this buggy. I started it up and run it out behind the house, not going fast but it seemed to be running too high a rpm for the speed. Soon I heard a wobbling noise, than a huge clunk, clunk and I turned it off. My comet 102c clutch fell off the shaft. I know I tightened it but tried not to over tighten it the last time. I brought the pilot home and tried tightening the bolt with my air impact wrench. I tightened but now makes a scraping metal on metal noise as the clutch turns by hand and when running. The back plate of the drive clutch has scrape marks on it now but I don't see where or what it is scraping on, the Engine.

WTF!!! I have about had it with this clutch, Should I ditch this clutch and find a stock one? It is like it should be spaced away from the Engine with a washer to keep it from scraping it. Keep in mind that most of my problems seem to have turned out self inflicted, I have had plenty of luck working with these machines, all bad.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
I'm wondering if coming loose at rpms caused the clutch to wallow out the mounting hole letting the clutch slide a tad too far in? Just a thought.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
daddyrat wrote:
Update*****

Back to the fricken comet 102c clutch.
Three weeks have gone by and today I was back in the garage. #2 Pilot is still down with the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) at Iron Dogs. The last thing I did to #1 was determine it had failed the leak down test due to the pulse vacuum line for the fuel pump leaking. I replaced the line and put clamps at both ends and the leak down test passed.

This morning, I put the carb back on #1 and trailered it out to where I do jetting runs. I expected to have to try a few jets and than be completely done with this buggy. I started it up and run it out behind the house, not going fast but it seemed to be running too high a rpm for the speed. Soon I heard a wobbling noise, than a huge clunk, clunk and I turned it off. My comet 102c clutch fell off the shaft. I know I tightened it but tried not to over tighten it the last time. I brought the pilot home and tried tightening the bolt with my air impact wrench. I tightened but now makes a scraping metal on metal noise as the clutch turns by hand and when running. The back plate of the drive clutch has scrape marks on it now but I don't see where or what it is scraping on, the Engine.

WTF!!! I have about had it with this clutch, Should I ditch this clutch and find a stock one? It is like it should be spaced away from the Engine with a washer to keep it from scraping it. Keep in mind that most of my problems seem to have turned out self inflicted, I have had plenty of luck working with these machines, all bad.


1) You can't "spacer" it with a washer because then the taper won't grab. (Maybe I am not reading your intentions here right though).
2) I am betting money right now that it must be the wrong offset clutch. I had a powerbloc on one of the machines I bought. It ate belts real fast. When I had a closer look and ran a straight edge I could see the offset was wrong. It's laying under the bench now and is not useable for an oddy. No way it should be rubbing on anything if the offset is correct.
3) You said: " I know I tightened it but tried not to over tighten it the last time. "
These things are torqued on good. Did you use a torque wrench ??


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
My money is on the clutch mounting hole is worn. It was spinning on the shaft and it dose not take much wear to effect the taper. It didn't rub before and it rubs now. Seems like the only answer to me. Can u pop another one on there or is it off with ur Engine?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
FloridaEdd wrote:
I'm wondering if coming loose at rpms caused the clutch to wallow out the mounting hole letting the clutch slide a tad too far in? Just a thought.


Maybe, it never scraped before.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
FloridaEdd wrote:
My money is on the clutch mounting hole is worn. It was spinning on the shaft and it dose not take much wear to effect the taper. It didn't rub before and it rubs now. Seems like the only answer to me. Can u pop another one on there or is it off with ur Engine?


Crap, forgot I have a stock clutch from #2 sitting under #2 in a parts pile. Too late now for today, put everything away. Great idea though. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
I think that what it is. Let us know.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
canadian oddy wrote:
daddyrat wrote:
Keep in mind that most of my problems seem to have turned out self inflicted, I have had plenty of luck working with these machines, all bad.


1) You can't "spacer" it with a washer because then the taper won't grab. (Maybe I am not reading your intentions here right though).
2) I am betting money right now that it must be the wrong offset clutch. I had a powerbloc on one of the machines I bought. It ate belts real fast. When I had a closer look and ran a straight edge I could see the offset was wrong. It's laying under the bench now and is not useable for an oddy. No way it should be rubbing on anything if the offset is correct.
3) You said: " I know I tightened it but tried not to over tighten it the last time. "
These things are torqued on good. Did you use a torque wrench ??


Thanks CO, I bet your right about the offset. I have tried pulling the clutch three times using the Comet tool and it was a BITCH every time. I think the wrong offsets somehow jammed together making the thing hopelessly stuck. Beating and the water trick got it off the second time but didnt work the third time. The third time I saw a guy on youtube stick a long pry bar shaft thru it while banging on the tool and super extention to get it off. I did something similar which got it off but probably ruined the thing.

My stock Honda clutch on #2 just popped off. I see there is a stock one on Ebay right now, I will bid on it.`


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
daddyrat wrote:
Thanks CO, I bet your right about the offset. I have tried pulling the clutch three times using the Comet tool and it was a BITCH every time. I think the wrong offsets somehow jammed together making the thing hopelessly stuck. Beating and the water trick got it off the second time but didnt work the third time. The third time I saw a guy on youtube stick a long pry bar shaft thru it while banging on the tool and super extention to get it off. I did something similar which got it off but probably ruined the thing.

My stock Honda clutch on #2 just popped off. I see there is a stock one on Ebay right now, I will bid on it.`


Edited:
STOP watching youboob
No FN way should a guy be "stick a long pry bar shaft thru it while banging on the tool and super extention to get it off."
OMFG. A couple of rattles with a 1/2" impact gun set on max and a couple of smacks on the pusher bolt should be all that is required.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
canadian oddy wrote:
daddyrat wrote:
Thanks CO, I bet your right about the offset. I have tried pulling the clutch three times using the Comet tool and it was a BITCH every time. I think the wrong offsets somehow jammed together making the thing hopelessly stuck. Beating and the water trick got it off the second time but didnt work the third time. The third time I saw a guy on youtube stick a long pry bar shaft thru it while banging on the tool and super extention to get it off. I did something similar which got it off but probably ruined the thing.

My stock Honda clutch on #2 just popped off. I see there is a stock one on Ebay right now, I will bid on it.`


Edited:
STOP watching youboob
No FN way should a guy be "stick a long pry bar shaft thru it while banging on the tool and super extention to get it off."
OMFG. A couple of rattles with a 1/2" impact gun set on max and a couple of smacks on the pusher bolt should be all that is required.


I agree, the point is that it took all of that to get it off. Mismatched offsets? I really had to look thru a lot of video's to find the method I had in mind. I just bought the stock clutch that was currently on ebay today. Coming from California will take at least a week to to get here. Incidentally, I previously torqued the clutch with my 1/2" impact gun set to full and I rattled twice for the 60lbs on the clutch bolt. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:36 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Wilmington NC
daddyrat wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
daddyrat wrote:
Thanks CO, I bet your right about the offset. I have tried pulling the clutch three times using the Comet tool and it was a BITCH every time. I think the wrong offsets somehow jammed together making the thing hopelessly stuck. Beating and the water trick got it off the second time but didnt work the third time. The third time I saw a guy on youtube stick a long pry bar shaft thru it while banging on the tool and super extention to get it off. I did something similar which got it off but probably ruined the thing.

My stock Honda clutch on #2 just popped off. I see there is a stock one on Ebay right now, I will bid on it.`


Edited:
STOP watching youboob
No FN way should a guy be "stick a long pry bar shaft thru it while banging on the tool and super extention to get it off."
OMFG. A couple of rattles with a 1/2" impact gun set on max and a couple of smacks on the pusher bolt should be all that is required.


I agree, the point is that it took all of that to get it off. Mismatched offsets? I really had to look thru a lot of video's to find the method I had in mind. I just bought the stock clutch that was currently on ebay today. Coming from California will take at least a week to to get here. Incidentally, I previously torqued the clutch with my 1/2" impact gun set to full and I rattled twice for the 60lbs on the clutch bolt. :)


I'd use a torque wrench next time. I put mine on with just the impact gun and it came back off. In pieces. Had to replace a few parts and reinstalled with the same impact gun. I got almost two full turns on the bolt with a torque wrench after. Lesson learned.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
dipnadactyl wrote:
daddyrat wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
daddyrat wrote:
Thanks CO, I bet your right about the offset. I have tried pulling the clutch three times using the Comet tool and it was a BITCH every time. I think the wrong offsets somehow jammed together making the thing hopelessly stuck. Beating and the water trick got it off the second time but didnt work the third time. The third time I saw a guy on youtube stick a long pry bar shaft thru it while banging on the tool and super extention to get it off. I did something similar which got it off but probably ruined the thing.

My stock Honda clutch on #2 just popped off. I see there is a stock one on Ebay right now, I will bid on it.`


Edited:
STOP watching youboob
No FN way should a guy be "stick a long pry bar shaft thru it while banging on the tool and super extention to get it off."
OMFG. A couple of rattles with a 1/2" impact gun set on max and a couple of smacks on the pusher bolt should be all that is required.


I agree, the point is that it took all of that to get it off. Mismatched offsets? I really had to look thru a lot of video's to find the method I had in mind. I just bought the stock clutch that was currently on ebay today. Coming from California will take at least a week to to get here. Incidentally, I previously torqued the clutch with my 1/2" impact gun set to full and I rattled twice for the 60lbs on the clutch bolt. :)


I'd use a torque wrench next time. I put mine on with just the impact gun and it came back off. In pieces. Had to replace a few parts and reinstalled with the same impact gun. I got almost two full turns on the bolt with a torque wrench after. Lesson learned.


Is there some sort of holder to keep the Engine from turning while using the torque wrench?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:40 am
Posts: 916
Location: Tallahassee Florida
I've used a small rope fed into the cylinder through the spark plug hole,this keeps the piston from moving and will not damage the cylinder or piston. . Keep one end sticking out so u can remove it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
I got the ebay stock clutch Thursday. It was full of gear lube, or heavy oil. The manual talks about grease on the shaft hole but nothing about gear lube. My other stock clutch was dry. I already drained it, is there something to this?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:02 am
Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
You drained it from where? I don't recall a drain plug. Could you post some pictures? I'm confused.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
rmesser wrote:
You drained it from where? I don't recall a drain plug. Could you post some pictures? I'm confused.


I received the stock clutch and unwrapped the plastic wrap it came in. I turned it upside down and 1/2 a quart of smelly gear lube came out of it. I originally opened the box in the house. I would have never been forgiven if that gear lube spilled on the carpet.

No photo's I can post. I got caught in that photobucket scam where after years they want to charge $30 a month for hosting pictures online. Haven't figured out who, where, or what I am going to do about that.

Anyway, I think the Comet 102 c did get wallowed out. It didn't fit solidly on the shaft. The shaft threads got dinked up inside the shaft for the clutch bolt. I carefully tapped out the shaft thinking with my luck the tap would break off inside it, it didn't.

Still wondering about gear lube in the clutch...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Posts: 2865
Location: East Peoria IL
Sure sounds strange to me. Wish I could see it to maybe help.

I would disassemble it and inspect before I installed it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
That just sounds way strange to me.
All I can think of is that the ebay seller lubed the hell out of it because he thought is might rust up while he had it laying around his storage area. I hope it's not fkd already. No reason to do that.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 149
Location: Durand, MI
So filling the clutch with oil isn't normal or a well known tried and true internet theory for long pilot clutch life? I turned it upside down and drained it out in a oil pan than stuck it on. I than torqued the bolt down to 60lbs.

Incidentally FloridaEd, When I tapped the center of the crank shaft I used your rope trick to stop the turning and it worked!


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