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Appears to be self inflicted destruction
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17609		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  daddyrat [ Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Appears to be self inflicted destruction
I would assume if your looking at this forum you may be aware that last weekend I rode my "Florida" or #2 pilot 20 miles or so and than melted it down. The plug looked pretty good, light brown, the only good news. Today I pulled the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and found two things.

1) The anti freeze drained out somewhere on the ride. It was basically empty. The radiator and overflow container were both full to the mark before leaving. I didn't notice any leaks or smell anti freeze while riding. Today I did notice the rear cooling line hose on the carburetor was half cocked and may have been the source of the leak. That coolant connection is right next to the carburetor's rear air boot clamp so I can see how I may have cocked it messing with pulling the carb for jetting.

2} The intake of the carb and the entire intake boot were filled with a fine dirt. The filter was a brand new Uni filter but it didn't appear the have any oil soaked on it. I replaced that filter new last winter and didn't think about spraying it with filter oil, too cold outside, or just to avoid the mess. I am now paying a huge price for that mistake, the dust conditions were brutal.

I got the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) pulled and will be taking it to Iron dogs Monday.
Author:  FloridaEdd [ Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
At least u know what happened and how to avoid it next time.

Most of my issues are self induced and they are the ones that hurt the most .

Ps
I run two indicator lights. One comes on when my fan is on and one if my temp gets too high.
Author:  daddyrat [ Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
FloridaEdd wrote:
I run two indicator lights. One comes on when my fan is on and one if my temp gets too high.


I didn't notice a temperature light coming on, not sure what light to look for on the steering. I just ordered 2 outerware prefilters. I will also be sure to soak both foam filters with filter oil. With the Engine out, I usually take the opportunity to clean and degrease the frame, wire wheel rust spots and mounting bolts, touch up paint frame and a arms. I will have a few weekends of cleaning before I get this Engine back.

Tomorrow I want to track down the air leak on the Ohio pilot. I am starting with the seal under the clutch.

Crap, the Pilot #2 ran great when I left the trailer, the thing was dialed in. No luck at all so far with the old Hondas..,.
Author:  FloridaEdd [ Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
But u know when u repair it that you have corrected the issue and it will run great again. Maybe a little rich though because of having an oiled filter.
I look forward to ur progress.
I'd feel good right now if I were u but I know it doesn't look that way right now.
Author:  daddyrat [ Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
Today I worked on Pilot #1 or the Ohio pilot. To recap, I got the Engine rebuilt but couldn't get jetting right. Online discussion pointed to an air leak still existing. I set up my homemade pressure tester and the pilot failed.

Today I took a closer look and first found and fixed a small leak on my tester itself. I finally was able to get my stuck clutch off and the side two lipped seal was not leaking. I went all over with a soapy spray bottle looking for bubbles but found none. I could hear a faint hissing sound which eventually led me to the fuel pump pulse line. I got a new hose and pinch clamps and it took care of that leak.

I pumped it up again and it held 6 psi for about 5 minutes. Iron dogs 1st Engine rebuild did not leak. Back to jetting. If I still have trouble jetting I may have to look closer at the carb.

Dropping #2 Engine off tomorrow at builders.
Author:  FloridaEdd [ Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
That air leak was ur jetting issue. Will be much easier now especially since u have some previous experience jetting.
All in all good news.
Author:  Kuma [ Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
Just a note about the Uni filters, I have found the best oil to be FFT or Bel Ray, the sticky stuff that is a mess to work with, I've tried Uni oil and it is too thin, I'm sure if you are racing and put a clean freshly oiled filter in before each race it's great but if it sits for any amount of time the oil will flow to the bottom of the filter and drain out, I suspect anything from an aerosol can is going to act similar.
I also use a filter skin on top oiled with K&N oil, this is just a pre filter for the uni and can be removed to reveal a clean uni, if out on a ride you can pull the skin off, knock off the stuck on sand or dirt and put it back.
I also use a dry K&N type filter with a prefilter on the air box lid modification. am I over doing it? haven't had any issues with sand getting to the Engine :)
Author:  daddyrat [ Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
Kuma wrote:
Just a note about the Uni filters, I have found the best oil to be FFT or Bel Ray, the sticky stuff that is a mess to work with, I've tried Uni oil and it is too thin, I'm sure if you are racing and put a clean freshly oiled filter in before each race it's great but if it sits for any amount of time the oil will flow to the bottom of the filter and drain out, I suspect anything from an aerosol can is going to act similar.
I also use a filter skin on top oiled with K&N oil, this is just a pre filter for the uni and can be removed to reveal a clean uni, if out on a ride you can pull the skin off, knock off the stuck on sand or dirt and put it back.
I also use a dry K&N type filter with a prefilter on the air box lid modification. am I over doing it? haven't had any issues with sand getting to the Engine :)


Thanks Kuma, I got some sort of filter oil in a spray can in the garage. I think it may be PJ1, sticky as hell, never noticed it dripping off the filter before. Thanks for the heads up.
Author:  Kuma [ Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
just always start with a clean filter, oil from one side and work it through the filter until its to the other side, never wring out a foam filter, it will tear the cells and make a path for the dirt to get through.
Author:  daddyrat [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
I got my #2 Engine back yesterday. Iron dog said it looked like more of a heat issue rather than dirt. I suspected a cocked coolant hose on the carb leaking coolant but I will watch for coolant leaks much closer while riding. The build took a new piston, rings, rod, bearings, crank bearings, balancer bearing, and crank seals. Both Pilots are on their second bore at 81mm. Iron Dog said their was some rust on the rod and some bearing race pitting. Said the rust was from long periods of sitting with no use. Said overall Engine had been taken care of and was in good shape.

I plan to put #2 back together this weekend but may not be able to test ride. #1 still needs jetting run.
Author:  FloridaEdd [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
Not much better then a completely rebuilt Engine.
Glad ur got it all sorted out,now I know u must be itching to go ride.
Author:  canadian oddy [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
daddyrat wrote:
I got my #2 Engine back yesterday. Iron dog said it looked like more of a heat issue rather than dirt. I suspected a cocked coolant hose on the carb leaking coolant but I will watch for coolant leaks much closer while riding. The build took a new piston, rings, rod, bearings, crank bearings, balancer bearing, and crank seals. Both Pilots are on their second bore at 81mm. Iron Dog said their was some rust on the rod and some bearing race pitting. Said the rust was from long periods of sitting with no use. Said overall Engine had been taken care of and was in good shape.

I plan to put #2 back together this weekend but may not be able to test ride. #1 still needs jetting run.


Avgas
Author:  daddyrat [ Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
Worked on reinstalling the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) in Florida pilot #2 this weekend and finished it. I took special care with the coolant hoses and carburetor boots for no leaks. Turned it over and it fired right up. I have to admit that I struggled to stay in the garage and finish it because I am so sick of wrenching every weekend on these things. Anyway, #2 is ready to ride, I expect jetting to still be good since the only change is oil on the air filter. :(

Pilot #1 has the "new to me" ebay stock clutch on it now. I could also tell that the day the clutch fell off, that I still had the full throttle bog even with a air tight, pressurized motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )). I want this jetting nightmare to end, to skip a step I ordered a brand new 39mm Kehein carb PWK. I didn't change a thing and threw it on this afternoon. I said "throw it on", that is a laugh. It is always a struggle. I figure if the original carb is good, I can put it on #2 if I ever got ambitions. That pilot started good.

Sadly I need to test jetting and the clutch on #1 before I drag it north for a ride. I think I only have two weekends before firearm deer season and everybody is kicked off the trails. Hopefully my luck is starting to change with the fl400's...
Author:  FloridaEdd [ Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appears to be self inflicted destruction
I feel ur pain. I truly do.
I feel good about the direction ur heading. It's always darkest before the dawn and u think the sun is about to shine for ya.

Having oil on the filter now will make ur previous jetting rich as the oiled filter restricts air a little.

When it stops being fun it's time for a break. I know from personal experience you can only work on something so much before u have to see a payoff.
Deep breath ,shake it off and just know u r dotting the i's and crossing the tee'sso it will work out.
Edd
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