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| Pilot Wont start ? http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=18703 |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Pilot Wont start ? |
Hey Guys- Does the Pilot have an overheat cut off sensor ?.. we took em out for a drive earlier today, and about 2 kms away the Pilot just shut off, had dim dash lights but stater wouldn't engage - towed it back to the shed and put a jump pack on it and it will now crank over - has spark but wont start - im wondering if it may have overheated - it was pretty hot when it stopped.. I brought it over from California ( US ) ( Elevation Aprox 85m ) And Im in Country Victoria ( AU ) Elevation Approx 600m I figured the Jetting should be on the rich side now ?? Feed back would be great Cheers |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Shane DownUnder wrote: it will now crank over - has spark but wont start - im wondering if it may have overheated - it was pretty hot when it stopped.. Feed back would be great Cheers Ohhhhhhhhhh. What is your compression now ?? You can get a free pdf manual here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B851Fd ... kU1QQ/view |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
You still got water in the rad ?? |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Not likely this was a jetting issue. Those elevations won't mean much. CO |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
I'll do a comp test now and see. and yeah radiator was only down about 20mm and recovery bottle was full, but Rad cap had a small leak - maybe an airloc ?- |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Shane DownUnder wrote: I'll do a comp test now and see. and yeah radiator was only down about 20mm and recovery bottle was full, but Rad cap had a small leak - maybe an airloc ?- I'll wait for the compression test results. Hope it don't take to long cause I gota go to bed. Work tomorrow. CO |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
So you have fuel and spark but no fire? Does it have compression? If it has all 3x then I'd suspect an issue with electrical or maybe the woodruff key sliced Get the manual out and start measuring continuity, voltages, and resistance vales everywhere. |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Ok. Comp not great - 60psi - The Other Pilot and the 350 both have 120psi, Are the Head Gaskets re-useabe ?.. Might have to take the head off and have a look ? |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Shane DownUnder wrote: Ok. Comp not great - 60psi - The Other Pilot and the 350 both have 120psi, Are the Head Gaskets re-useabe ?.. Might have to take the head off and have a look ? You're ded. |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Sorry bud I know you didn't want to hear that. |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
You melted a piston. There are several causes for this. 1) You leaned it out because the fuel pump not supplying enough fuel. You need 4.5 oz in 10 sec flow. Use a stop watch. I have now switched all my oddy's to electric pumps. Not test run yet. I have had to many problems with the vacuum pumps. 2) You blew a head gasket. Look for black specs in the rad fluid. That's a tell tale. 3) Your fuel octane was shyte and you melted the piston. 4) Your water pump not circulating fluid. 5) Your thermostat got stuck. CO Edit: My money is on 1,2 or 3. |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
On a side note here, since you are going to have to do a rebuild I would look closely at the cylinder or have someone you "TRUST" look at it to see if it really needs a bore job. The local fags here seem to like to re-bore your cylinder for you because they can charge $$ for it. Many times all you have to do is remove the aluminum smear in the cylinder. Then just get a new piston kit. I would suggest not reusing the head gasket. I have done this many times on my FL350's and just used silicone but on the Pilot, it is a liquid cooled head that can leak into the cylinder if it blows. I strongly suggest you don't do that. CO |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Holy crap I almost forgot. BEFORE you take it apart do a pressure test. This will tell you if your crank seals are still good. It will fail this test though if you blew a head gasket. CO |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Thanks Heaps Guys, Will rip off the head and let you know what I find !! |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Well we pulled it down and Yep . Piston not looking the best- Is the last two digits on the part no the piston Size ?? Pic posted ! |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Attachment: 2019-07-28 19.57.36.jpg [ 68.68 KiB | Viewed 4469 times ] |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
I mean the 82 ? |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Attachment: 2019-07-28 19.14.44.jpg [ 57.2 KiB | Viewed 4469 times ] |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Pulled out the Tank, it was full of rust and sand, and the filter just had sludge coming out of the intake side, so fair chance it was starving for fuel.. |
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| Author: | canadian oddy [ Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Shane DownUnder wrote: Well we pulled it down and Yep . Piston not looking the best- Is the last two digits on the part no the piston Size ?? Pic posted ! Shane DownUnder wrote: Pulled out the Tank, it was full of rust and sand, and the filter just had sludge coming out of the intake side, so fair chance it was starving for fuel.. 1) That is a wiseco piston. That means this machine had it's Engine rebuilt at one time in it's life. The bad news is that it's on it's last bore. That's an 82 mm wiseco. The last four digits in the code are the piston size. 82.00 means 82mm and 80.50 means it is and 80.5mm etc etc. The 82mm is the largest they make for our engines. There is a thread on this site about over bore pistons in the tech section. If your cylinder is poo'd then it will need a new sleeve or an over bore piston. Verify and have a piston in your hand before you do this. Read that over size piston thread. 2) Yep -- fuel starvation is the deadliest thing to an oddy. 3) If that was my machine I would just order new rings. Then just fluff and buff that piston and reuse it. You file out the ring grooves where the rings are stuck with your wife's finger nail file. If the cylinder is good (which I suspect it is) you can spend money on a new piston. Just hone the cylinder a bit. What ever you decide I strongly recommend new gaskets and Yamabond or Hondabond sealer. I use red silicone but get a hard time here about it. CO EDIT: After rebuild VERIFY FUEL FLOW. You have been warned. RUN GOOD OCTANE FUEL. You have been warned. EDIT 2: MUST PASS pressure/vacuum test. You have been warned. |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Thanks heaps for the info, Will make sure I check everything thoroughly. I've been running premium 98 octane - and Husqvarna HP 2 stroke oil @ 30:1 |
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| Author: | ridgerun [ Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Cw racing engines in California has pilot pistons 82 mn up to 84 mm. 82.5 83 mm. Try them before going the sleeve route |
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| Author: | ridgerun [ Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-FL400-Pi ... 3739927221. There is a link if it works. |
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| Author: | Shane DownUnder [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
Thanks Heaps, That's a much better option than the resleeve ... Cheers |
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| Author: | ZeroClient [ Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pilot Wont start ? |
that's an oil starved piston you've got there, from going too lean. Check the crank real good. Replace the crank seals. Rebuild the carb. Bring the tank to a radiator shop for cleaning. You can check the bottom needle bearing. While pushing the connecting rod up/down slowly IE rotating the crank round and round; twist, push, pull, slide the rod. It shouldn't move at all, however some left/right is OK. Up down is a nono, and twisting is also a nono. |
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