Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login   * Register * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email   
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:42 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
bugeye59 wrote:
hoser wrote:
The same bearing used on both sides, 6306 Honda calls for a 6306 C3 on the clutch side, wonder what the difference is?


C3 refers to the internal clearance of the bearing ( the gaps between the balls and the raceways ).

A C3 bearing has a greater than standard clearance.

OK - The boundary sizes are the same.

The 6306 has an internal clearance of 5 to 20 microns
The 6306C3 has an internal clearance of 13 to 28 microns.
Hope this helps...Baz


Thanks for the info I knew it was a clearance thing I just didnt know how much, this is the second ATVR Engine (I only assume they installed the bearings on this Engine) I have found with the plain 6306 bearing on both sides, I wonder if its intentional or they just grab the wrong bearings off the shelf.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Here are some more pics of the changed I made to make flow corrections at the transfers see the pink arrows they represent flow inside the Engine from the crank case up the transfers the RED arrows are where the ledge or miss match was left when this build or CR500 conversion was originally done. The red arrows would dead head against the ledge.


Attachments:
blocked flow.jpg
blocked flow.jpg [ 60.45 KiB | Viewed 2111 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Ledge removed GREEN arrows are where the ledge was removed so it can now flow.


Attachments:
flow after fix.jpg
flow after fix.jpg [ 71.19 KiB | Viewed 2110 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Looking at it from another view, with a new gasket installed you can see what the flow was like BH (before hoserization) RED arrows showing where the flow met the ledge.


Attachments:
flowmatch.jpg
flowmatch.jpg [ 73.84 KiB | Viewed 2109 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
To make them match material had to be removed from the cylinder, removing the material also thinned out an area where the gasket seals so I filled the void in the casting with JB weld so the gasket can seal, I don't think their would be a sealing problem if the JB was not used their is plenty of gasket surface area to seal the cylinder from the outside atmosphere, I did it because more sealing surface is better..

PINK arrows point to JB


Attachments:
relief and fill.jpg
relief and fill.jpg [ 58.1 KiB | Viewed 2108 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
New gasket needs trimmed back.


Attachments:
relief1.jpg
relief1.jpg [ 64.61 KiB | Viewed 2107 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
New gasket trimmed setting on cylinder after it was hoserized for flow.


Attachments:
relief.jpg
relief.jpg [ 63.63 KiB | Viewed 2106 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Oil feed hole for the balancer bearings hoserized to enhance oil flow into the balancer area.


Attachments:
Dsc02088.jpg
Dsc02088.jpg [ 41.41 KiB | Viewed 2105 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Afastcar you said something about the wires and was concerned about the electrical components on this Engine, I didnt see anything that looked damaged or discolored.


Attachments:
DSC02091.JPG
DSC02091.JPG [ 102.98 KiB | Viewed 2104 times ]
DSC02094.JPG
DSC02094.JPG [ 91.51 KiB | Viewed 2104 times ]
DSC02095.JPG
DSC02095.JPG [ 82.05 KiB | Viewed 2104 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Here is a FL400 cylinder gasket laying on top of a CR500 gasket.

The CR500 gasket is almost the same color as the card board so I added the red arrows.


Attachments:
Dsc02098.jpg
Dsc02098.jpg [ 43.72 KiB | Viewed 2101 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
CR500 on the FL400 gasket..

To do this conversion their is extensive welding done to the cases to make the CR500 fit, the cylinder studs are relocated.

I wonder if you could just drill the holes bigger on the cylinder to make the stock studs line up? Now you can bolt the cylinder on you would have to get the transfers to match, I wonder if you could put the cylinder into a lathe and cut 1/4" off just the gasket surface area then get a piece of aluminum 1/4" thick to make an adapter out of, after drilling the stud holes then lay a FL400 gasket on one side, mark the aluminum then lay a CR500 gasket on the other side cut it out, match and blend it to the FL400 side, your making an adapter so the whole thing is bolt on, you would still need to modify the cases some to enhance flows but you would not need to do all the welding and you could go back to the 400 at any time.

You would still need the CR500 pipe.

Anybody have a CR500 cylinder that is junk?

Personally I never seen any big advantage to the CR500 Pilots I rode with (4 of them) I drag raced them all just so we could get an idea of how much more you got for the 3000 bux ATVR charges to make yours a CR500, when we would launch the CR500 jump about 2' ahead of my Pilot right out of the hole, we would run about 500-700' WOT (Wide Open Throttle) and the CR500 front bumper was only about 1-2 feet ahead of my front bumper, one of the CR500 Pilots we even tried drag racing up a hill, same results..


Attachments:
DSC02099.JPG
DSC02099.JPG [ 51.92 KiB | Viewed 2230 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Once again lucky me gets to follow the skillbilly mutt that removed the studs with a "stud removal tool" these tools are suppose to be non destructive but that's the liar salesman and company that sells them claims, the stud removal tools are over prices gagets for the want to be mechanic that has to have all the latest and greatest tools MAC or SnapOn sells.


I go to put the NEW Pro Design head on and it wont fit over the studs because the stud removal tool has deformed the studs just enough the raised metal will not allow them to pass, the CR500 head like most heads use the head studs as dowels to locate and center the head over the cylinder, I could have easily ran a slightly larger drill bit through the holes but this would allow the head to walk and move around.

So to fix the skillbilly damage I removed all the studs and put them in the lathe and using a file and sand paper remove the damage, I hope the mutt that used the stud removal tool reads this some day, thanks dip shit for wasting an hour of my life fixing your screw ups, I can only hope this mutt never wrenches on something meaningful like a commercial air plane.

The damage is hard to take a picture of.

See the double nuts on the studs in the pictures that is the NON destructive way to remove studs.


Attachments:
Dsc02167.jpg
Dsc02167.jpg [ 43.74 KiB | Viewed 2187 times ]
Dsc02172.jpg
Dsc02172.jpg [ 52.78 KiB | Viewed 2187 times ]
Dsc02176.jpg
Dsc02176.jpg [ 66.54 KiB | Viewed 2187 times ]
Dsc02178.jpg
Dsc02178.jpg [ 63.25 KiB | Viewed 2187 times ]
Dsc02180.jpg
Dsc02180.jpg [ 56 KiB | Viewed 2187 times ]
Dsc02181.jpg
Dsc02181.jpg [ 60.66 KiB | Viewed 2187 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
New billet parts always look so nice.


Attachments:
DSC02185.JPG
DSC02185.JPG [ 75.15 KiB | Viewed 2184 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Exhaust flange mated to the cylinder, huge ledge removed.


Here is before the second pic is after.


Image


Attachments:
DSC02189.JPG
DSC02189.JPG [ 65.03 KiB | Viewed 2183 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Before installing the new head I checked the squish clearance on the old head using the old gasket, the clearance was .090 the head gasket is .043 thick.


With the Pro design head the squish is .070

The distance from the top of the piston to the top of the cylinder was .014, I think Baz was asking me this??


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:17 pm
Posts: 3620
Location: Wichita ks
"H" the head bolt looks bent or is it just the angle of the pic. If bent you may consider replacing as not to cause a bad torgue up across the head. If that nuts not setting flush pulling straight down as the head heats up and cooles down it may cause a blown head gasket. Just a thought.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
Engine and parts made it back today, thanks again for everything Hoser it all looks great cant wait to see it run........


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
afastcar wrote:
Engine and parts made it back today, thanks again for everything Hoser it all looks great cant wait to see it run........


That was fast! :shock:


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:45 pm
Posts: 885
afastcar wrote:
Engine and parts made it back today, thanks again for everything Hoser it all looks great cant wait to see it run........

Well how does it run?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:19 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Chandler, AZ
Still running like a champ!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:45 pm
Posts: 885
I have a the 500 setup behind my door for several yrs now. Just wating for my curent 400 to take a dump.
Whats the 500 like compared to stock?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
After driving slickricks briggsbuilt with a 500 in it all I can say is ZOOM

i WANT ONE AFTER i DO THE SUSPENSION...


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Turbotexas wrote:
After driving slickricks briggsbuilt with a 500 in it all I can say is ZOOM

i WANT ONE AFTER i DO THE SUSPENSION...


No comparison between the two.

I never seen any of the CR500 converted engines run any where close to as well as the CR500 engines in the stadium lites those were taken to a whole other level of performance.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:46 am
Posts: 5257
Location: Seguin, TX (near San Antonio)
hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
After driving slickricks briggsbuilt with a 500 in it all I can say is ZOOM

i WANT ONE AFTER i DO THE SUSPENSION...


No comparison between the two.

I never seen any of the CR500 converted engines run any where close to as well as the CR500 engines in the stadium lites those were taken to a whole other level of performance.

yes rick has explained to me the extra work done that atvracing doesn't do on the kit they sell... atvracing didnt touch the briggsbuilts!


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:45 pm
Posts: 885
Turbotexas wrote:
hoser wrote:
Turbotexas wrote:
After driving slickricks briggsbuilt with a 500 in it all I can say is ZOOM

i WANT ONE AFTER i DO THE SUSPENSION...


No comparison between the two.

I never seen any of the CR500 converted engines run any where close to as well as the CR500 engines in the stadium lites those were taken to a whole other level of performance.

yes rick has explained to me the extra work done that atvracing doesn't do on the kit they sell... atvracing didnt touch the briggsbuilts!

How about sharing that explaination of the extra work?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Duneit, eseymour72, Garemie, Google [Bot], Lanix, Q, wyeeoddy


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group