Board index

My Home Page

PilotOdyssey.com By hoser...


PilotOdyssey.com Chat Room

PilotOdyssey.com Photo Album

* Login   * Register * FAQ
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/smiley_cool.png PilotOdyssey.com Chat    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/find.png PilotOdyssey.com Google Search    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_tongue.png FL400 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_grin.png FL350 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_evilgrin.png FL250 Parts    http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/adm/images/imagemenu/emoticon_unhappy.png Admin Email   
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:29 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 3:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:45 am
Posts: 125
Location: So Cal
I raced last Saturday night at Milestone Ranch. It was the first time they put us on the Pro track. Like any MX Pro track it's full of huge doubles and triples... not really great for Pilot racing. I had to brake hard for the first jump then nail it for the second... all the way around the track... WOT (Wide Open Throttle), Brake, WOT (Wide Open Throttle), Brake. Anyway, the Pilot ran great during practice. It ran great again throughout the first moto. But then... as I was cruising my way back to the pits, something seemed odd. The thottle response was just a little off. 30 minutes later, time for the second moto, I went to start it up and... I knew immediately... it was done. It cranked a few times but it got slower and slower. After a few tries it wouldn't crank at all. You could just hear it tightening-up...

Here's a few pics I snapped. The cylinder is on its last bore so I'm considering taking it to LA Sleeve. the crank needs to be rebuilt. Any suggestions from the So Cal guys out there on where to take bottom end? Thanks, Darin


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Parts list (((don't ORDER ANYTHING YET)))

94301-14200 Pin A, Dowel (Dowel pin for Engine mount just need one)
90701-HE0-000 (Dowel pins for crank cases your old ones are stuck and will be junk when I remove NEED TWO )
91204-HE0-003 (Seal for the left crank case cover must have forgot to list this on the other order)
95701-06085-00 (bolt for recoil starter one is too short, its not the right bolt NEED ONE)


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

ATVR fail


Attachments:
p0.JPG
p0.JPG [ 93.14 KiB | Viewed 2833 times ]
p1.JPG
p1.JPG [ 111.32 KiB | Viewed 2833 times ]
p2.JPG
p2.JPG [ 98.7 KiB | Viewed 2833 times ]
p3.JPG
p3.JPG [ 109.04 KiB | Viewed 2833 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CR500 Poof
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
MrClean wrote:
I raced last Saturday night at Milestone Ranch. It was the first time they put us on the Pro track. Like any MX Pro track it's full of huge doubles and triples... not really great for Pilot racing. I had to brake hard for the first jump then nail it for the second... all the way around the track... WOT (Wide Open Throttle), Brake, WOT (Wide Open Throttle), Brake. Anyway, the Pilot ran great during practice. It ran great again throughout the first moto. But then... as I was cruising my way back to the pits, something seemed odd. The thottle response was just a little off. 30 minutes later, time for the second moto, I went to start it up and... I knew immediately... it was done. It cranked a few times but it got slower and slower. After a few tries it wouldn't crank at all. You could just hear it tightening-up...

Here's a few pics I snapped. The cylinder is on its last bore so I'm considering taking it to LA Sleeve. the crank needs to be rebuilt. Any suggestions from the So Cal guys out there on where to take bottom end? Thanks, Darin


No cooling holes drilled in the piston hmmm

Sure it needs a bore or just honed and a new piston?

Measure the cylinder for out of round and taper if in spec chances are its not worn since the last rebuild.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: CR500 Poof
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 3:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:18 am
Posts: 633
Location: Los Angeles
hoser wrote:
MrClean wrote:
I raced last Saturday night at Milestone Ranch. It was the first time they put us on the Pro track. Like any MX Pro track it's full of huge doubles and triples... not really great for Pilot racing. I had to brake hard for the first jump then nail it for the second... all the way around the track... WOT (Wide Open Throttle), Brake, WOT (Wide Open Throttle), Brake. Anyway, the Pilot ran great during practice. It ran great again throughout the first moto. But then... as I was cruising my way back to the pits, something seemed odd. The thottle response was just a little off. 30 minutes later, time for the second moto, I went to start it up and... I knew immediately... it was done. It cranked a few times but it got slower and slower. After a few tries it wouldn't crank at all. You could just hear it tightening-up...

Here's a few pics I snapped. The cylinder is on its last bore so I'm considering taking it to LA Sleeve. the crank needs to be rebuilt. Any suggestions from the So Cal guys out there on where to take bottom end? Thanks, Darin


No cooling holes drilled in the piston hmmm

Sure it needs a bore or just honed and a new piston?

Measure the cylinder for out of round and taper if in spec chances are its not worn since the last rebuild.


Why would you need cooling holes drilled in the piston for a pilot? I thought pilot jugs don't have exhaust bridges, therefore; no need for holes in the piston...


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: CR500 Poof
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 3:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
cruz_01 wrote:
hoser wrote:
MrClean wrote:
I raced last Saturday night at Milestone Ranch. It was the first time they put us on the Pro track. Like any MX Pro track it's full of huge doubles and triples... not really great for Pilot racing. I had to brake hard for the first jump then nail it for the second... all the way around the track... WOT (Wide Open Throttle), Brake, WOT (Wide Open Throttle), Brake. Anyway, the Pilot ran great during practice. It ran great again throughout the first moto. But then... as I was cruising my way back to the pits, something seemed odd. The thottle response was just a little off. 30 minutes later, time for the second moto, I went to start it up and... I knew immediately... it was done. It cranked a few times but it got slower and slower. After a few tries it wouldn't crank at all. You could just hear it tightening-up...

Here's a few pics I snapped. The cylinder is on its last bore so I'm considering taking it to LA Sleeve. the crank needs to be rebuilt. Any suggestions from the So Cal guys out there on where to take bottom end? Thanks, Darin


No cooling holes drilled in the piston hmmm

Sure it needs a bore or just honed and a new piston?

Measure the cylinder for out of round and taper if in spec chances are its not worn since the last rebuild.


Why would you need cooling holes drilled in the piston for a pilot? I thought pilot jugs don't have exhaust bridges, therefore; no need for holes in the piston...


You don't see the bridge in the pics above with the scuffing above the bridge?

Its a CR500 cylinder he is running.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:45 am
Posts: 125
Location: So Cal
This top end was done 2 1/2 years ago at a Honda dealership... I was naive back then. I had very little mechanical experience and thought that I should trust the "pros". Thanks to this site... I've learned a lot.

You're right Hoser... The cylinder may just need to be honed. The crank, however, was stuck even after I removed the jug. It's moving now but... not easily. I don't feel competent enough to tackle a bottom-end rebuild. So, I'll pull the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and take it somewhere locally.

I've never come across any discussions about drilling cooling holes in CR500 pistons. It makes perfect sense... Is it common? Any CR500 owners out there have any comments?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:18 am
Posts: 633
Location: Los Angeles
Oops... Somehow missed looking at that pic


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
cruz_01 wrote:
Oops... Somehow missed looking at that pic


No big deal it was a good question, your right the Pilot does not have a bridge and no holes need drilled.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
MrClean wrote:
This top end was done 2 1/2 years ago at a Honda dealership... I was naive back then. I had very little mechanical experience and thought that I should trust the "pros". Thanks to this site... I've learned a lot.

You're right Hoser... The cylinder may just need to be honed. The crank, however, was stuck even after I removed the jug. It's moving now but... not easily. I don't feel competent enought to tackle a bottom-end rebuild. So, I'll pull the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and take it somewhere locally.

I've never come across any discussions about drilling cooling holes in CR500 pistons. It makes perfect sense... Is it common? Any CR500 owners out there have any comments?


Measure the over all width of the exhaust port if you can like in this pic.


Image


The current piston looks like a Honda or PRO-X piston in the pics?

If the cylinder is ported and the exhaust ports are cut too wide you have to use the wiseco pistons because the cutouts on the sides of the cast pistons will allow a passage between the exhaust and the transfers.

Can you slip the cylinder back down over the piston then through the exhaust port take a scribe and scribe the exhaust port opening all the way around on the piston then we can see exactly how close to the cut outs you are.

If the bottom end is hard to turn its done don't run it!

I have the tools to go through the bottom end if you cant find someone local that's reasonable to perform the work, factor in shipping x2 if sent my way.

Any pics of the crank and rod ? Is their any discoloration?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:45 am
Posts: 125
Location: So Cal
hoser wrote:

The current piston looks like a Honda or PRO-X piston in the pics?

If the cylinder is ported and the exhaust ports are cut too wide you have to use the wiseco pistons because the cutouts on the sides of the cast pistons will allow a passage between the exhaust and the transfers.

Can you slip the cylinder back down over the piston then through the exhaust port take a scribe and scribe the exhaust port opening all the way around on the piston then we can see exactly how close to the cut outs you are.

If the bottom end is hard to turn its done don't run it!

I have the tools to go through the bottom end if you cant find someone local that's reasonable to perform the work, factor in shipping x2 if sent my way.

Any pics of the crank and rod ? Is their any discoloration?



Yes... It's a Pro-X.

I think you're absolutely right about needing to run a Wiseco piston. As you suggested, I slipped the piston back into the cylinder. When looking thru the exhaust port I can actually see the cutouts in the piston. It's not much more than a hair's width on each side but the cutouts are clearly visable.

Help me to understand what's going-on in this situation. It seems to me that fuel/air mixture is entering the exhaust port thru the transfers when the piston is near the top of the stroke. Then, the mixture ignites and causes excessive heat in exhaust port. Is that about right?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Quote:

Yes... It's a Pro-X.

I think you're absolutely right about needing to run a Wiseco piston. As you suggested, I slipped the piston back into the cylinder. When looking thru the exhaust port I can actually see the cutouts in the piston. It's not much more than a hair's width on each side but the cutouts are clearly visable.

Help me to understand what's going-on in this situation. It seems to me that fuel/air mixture is entering the exhaust port thru the transfers when the piston is near the top of the stroke. Then, the mixture ignites and causes excessive heat in exhaust port. Is that about right?


If the pressure in the pipe is higher than whats in the transfers (crank case pressure) then your going to have hot exhaust gases blowing into the transfers, see any signs of carbon in the bottom end or transfers?

If the pressure in the pipe is lower than in the transfers when the cutouts connect then pressure from the crank case will bleed into the pipe, this will reduce power because their is less of a charge in the crank case to be compressed on the next cycle.

The more pics you post the more we can help you.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:45 am
Posts: 125
Location: So Cal
Pics of the crank...


Attachments:
p4.JPG
p4.JPG [ 114.17 KiB | Viewed 2766 times ]
p5.JPG
p5.JPG [ 116.12 KiB | Viewed 2766 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
MrClean wrote:
Pics of the crank...


Whats all the dark specs I see in the crank case?

What clutch you running?

Any pics of the bottom of the cylinder showing the transfer ports?


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:45 am
Posts: 125
Location: So Cal
hoser wrote:
MrClean wrote:
Pics of the crank...


Whats all the dark specs I see in the crank case?

What clutch you running?

Any pics of the bottom of the cylinder showing the transfer ports?


The dark specs appear to be flecks of aluminum. There's a decent gouge in one area of the piston. You can see it in the attached picture.

The clutch is Power Block.

Cylinder pic attached.


Attachments:
p6.JPG
p6.JPG [ 85.95 KiB | Viewed 2750 times ]
P7.JPG
P7.JPG [ 100.11 KiB | Viewed 2750 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Engine is here and apart.

Seal behind recoil was leaking balancer oil.


Attachments:
File comment: Seal behind recoil was leaking balancer oil.
DSC05329.JPG
DSC05329.JPG [ 106.59 KiB | Viewed 2700 times ]
DSC05330.JPG
DSC05330.JPG [ 108.13 KiB | Viewed 2700 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
One of the dowel pins for Engine mount was crushed and will be replaced.


Attachments:
DSC05331.JPG
DSC05331.JPG [ 68.06 KiB | Viewed 2699 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Not much metallic in the balancer case.


Attachments:
DSC05334.JPG
DSC05334.JPG [ 113.75 KiB | Viewed 2678 times ]
DSC05335.JPG
DSC05335.JPG [ 93.11 KiB | Viewed 2678 times ]
DSC05336.JPG
DSC05336.JPG [ 100.24 KiB | Viewed 2678 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Welds part of CR500 mod


Attachments:
DSC05347.JPG
DSC05347.JPG [ 102.85 KiB | Viewed 2677 times ]
File comment: Looks like they cranked the cylinder stud in so tight it cracked the case
DSC05348.JPG
DSC05348.JPG [ 92.43 KiB | Viewed 2677 times ]
File comment: Closeup
DSC05350.JPG
DSC05350.JPG [ 77.29 KiB | Viewed 2677 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Crank seal on clutch side installed real deep


Attachments:
DSC05354.JPG
DSC05354.JPG [ 80.55 KiB | Viewed 2676 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Cases split mad side bearing, see brown carbon trails on bearing race and bottom end


Attachments:
DSC05355.JPG
DSC05355.JPG [ 118.47 KiB | Viewed 2559 times ]
DSC05356.JPG
DSC05356.JPG [ 111.92 KiB | Viewed 2675 times ]
DSC05357.JPG
DSC05357.JPG [ 104.49 KiB | Viewed 2675 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Rust on crank


Attachments:
DSC05358.JPG
DSC05358.JPG [ 91.39 KiB | Viewed 2673 times ]
DSC05359.JPG
DSC05359.JPG [ 97.22 KiB | Viewed 2673 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Clutch side case


Attachments:
DSC05407.JPG
DSC05407.JPG [ 87.31 KiB | Viewed 2703 times ]
DSC05408.JPG
DSC05408.JPG [ 112.39 KiB | Viewed 2703 times ]
DSC05410.JPG
DSC05410.JPG [ 89 KiB | Viewed 2703 times ]
DSC05411.JPG
DSC05411.JPG [ 96 KiB | Viewed 2703 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Better view on how deep the seal was set.


Attachments:
DSC05412.JPG
DSC05412.JPG [ 75.2 KiB | Viewed 2702 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Seal full of dirt and crap, seal was bad letting in dirty and took out bearing or the bad bearing damaged seal and let dirt in, whats the history on this seal, looking at the seal leaking on the mag side I am under the impression these seals have not been changed in a long time???


Attachments:
DSC05413.JPG
DSC05413.JPG [ 69.05 KiB | Viewed 2701 times ]
DSC05414.JPG
DSC05414.JPG [ 67.9 KiB | Viewed 2701 times ]
DSC05417.JPG
DSC05417.JPG [ 74.87 KiB | Viewed 2701 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Bearing stuck on crank, I will have to grind it off, the metal ball seperator all bunched up and wrecked, the resistance felt when trying to turn the Engine over was all the metal rubbing on the cases, it cut a trench into the cases where it was rubbing.


Attachments:
DSC05423.JPG
DSC05423.JPG [ 74.09 KiB | Viewed 2700 times ]
DSC05425.JPG
DSC05425.JPG [ 72.7 KiB | Viewed 2700 times ]
DSC05426.JPG
DSC05426.JPG [ 71.35 KiB | Viewed 2700 times ]
DSC05429.JPG
DSC05429.JPG [ 93.9 KiB | Viewed 2700 times ]
DSC05430.JPG
DSC05430.JPG [ 98.49 KiB | Viewed 2700 times ]
DSC05431.JPG
DSC05431.JPG [ 83.67 KiB | Viewed 2700 times ]
DSC05432.JPG
DSC05432.JPG [ 92.37 KiB | Viewed 2700 times ]
Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: bearing
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 70
Instead of grinding the bearing completely off, we used to take a grinder and just cut 2 places in the outer race across from each other so that we could take a 2 jaw puller and grab the bearing in the notches with the puller and pull it off the crank...It's much faster and easier than cutting the bearing completely off with the grinder, and you don't risk damaging the crank surface....
Redman


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], eseymour72, Google [Bot], liduno, rmesser


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group