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CR500 Poofkaboom and hoser CSI
http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5511		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  hoser [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: bearing
redman wrote:
Instead of grinding the bearing completely off, we used to take a grinder and just cut 2 places in the outer race across from each other so that we could take a 2 jaw puller and grab the bearing in the notches with the puller and pull it off the crank...It's much faster and easier than cutting the bearing completely off with the grinder, and you don't risk damaging the crank surface....
Redman


Hi thanks for the tip, I usually use my buddy's industrial clam shell puller to pull them off but in the past I have found that if the bearing separator is damaged and cant hold the ball spacing or if the balls are worn really bad their is enough give the puller just wont move it, it never seems to tighten up solid .

I have a thin metal plate I put between the crank and bearing so I don't grind into the crank lobe, I grind the outer race until it splits then break it off, pry off the bearing separator and balls then grind the inner race down until I see the blue line, when the metal turns brown then blue that means your about .002-.005 away from the crank shaft itself, then I will roll the crank over 180 and grind the other side the same way most the time by time I reach the 'blue line' on the second side their is enough tension relieved the inner race will come off, every once in a while I get one where the inner race is fused to the crank so a chisel is required to break the inner race off the crankshaft.

Using a 4" grinder with a grinding wheel makes pretty quick work of it you just have to be careful, the hardest part is dragging my pipe vise and stand outside to do the grinding out their so I don't fill my shop with a layer of grinding stone and tiny metal particles.
Author:  hoser [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cleaned the aluminum off the cylinder wall with muratic acid then gave it a lite hone the cylinder cleaned up well with the exception of some minor scratches down below the exhaust port, I would run it this way myself those scratches wont hurt anything if anything they will help with lubing the cylinder more, as the piston travels down and pressurizes the crank case the pressure will force air/fuel (carrying the oil) up the grooves to the rings.

The cylinder measures 3.583

91mm = 3.582

Most Wiseco pistons come to fit the final bore, example if you order a 91mm piston its smaller than 91mm it requires a 91mm hole by time you add in the proper clearance, is their any chance you can get someone to measure a 91mm wiseco before they ship to see what the clearance will be? I hate to order a piston just to have to send it back because its a few thousands too small, the other option is to just send the cylinder out for a new sleeve.

Tell me the story on the heads again, one came on the Engine the other came in a separate package.

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Author:  MrClean [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
hoser wrote:
Seal full of dirt and crap, seal was bad letting in dirty and took out bearing or the bad bearing damaged seal and let dirt in, whats the history on this seal, looking at the seal leaking on the mag side I am under the impression these seals have not been changed in a long time???


I don't have much history on this Pilot. I think a guy that went by 'Pilot3' on Kiowa's message board had ATVR build it. He lived in the north somewhere... North Dakota or Montana maybe. He sold it to a guy 4 years ago who brought it to So Cal. That guy sold it to me about 3 years ago.

The Pilot is on ATVR's web site. The crazy little wing makes it recognizable. Maybe somebody knows 'Pilot3' and can tell me approximately when ATVR did all the work. The only clue I have is the date punched into the Teamtech harness... "96". That would suggest the work was done in 1995.



Here's the pic. It's the #3 Pilot.
http://www.atvracing1.com/hondapilot.htm
Author:  MrClean [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
hoser wrote:

Tell me the story on the heads again, one came on the Engine the other came in a separate package.



The head that's on the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is the one I've been running. It's got 180PSI. I'll continue to use that one.

When I bought the Pilot the previous owner told me that the one in the package is a "race" head. He gave it to me as a spare. He installed the 180PSI head because he wanted to run pump gas. I don't know if he was aware that the compression was still too high for pump gas.

I sent you the 'race' head just because I thought you might like to look at it. If the mild head's got 180PSI, I wonder how much compression the 'race' head's got. From what I've heard, those two heads are the only ones that ATVR uses on the FL500 conversions.
Author:  hoser [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
MrClean wrote:
hoser wrote:

Tell me the story on the heads again, one came on the Engine the other came in a separate package.



The head that's on the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) is the one I've been running. It's got 180PSI. I'll continue to use that one.

When I bought the Pilot the previous owner told me that the one in the package is a "race" head. He gave it to me as a spare. He installed the 180PSI head because he wanted to run pump gas. I don't know if he was aware that the compression was still too high for pump gas.

I sent you the 'race' head just because I thought you might like to look at it. If the mild head's got 180PSI, I wonder how much compression the 'race' head's got. From what I've heard, those two heads are the only ones that ATVR uses on the FL500 conversions.


I will cc both of them to see how many cc's they are, did you want me to increase the volume of the one that came on the Engine to lower the compression a little more? You use this just for racing so it don't matter if your running race gas or you run a bunch of gas through it play riding too?

That cylinder gasket you sent is the right one.

Can you post info on the clutch and pics?
Author:  mudbogger [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Isn't that RADICALS old Pilot???
Author:  MrClean [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Has the exhaust bridge been relieved? I didn't look at it closely before I shipped it.

I read a bunch of CR500 posts on motorcycle message boards. They do recommend relieving the exhaust bridge and drilling the holes in Wiesco pistons.
Author:  MrClean [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
hoser wrote:

I will cc both of them to see how many cc's they are, did you want me to increase the volume of the one that came on the Engine to lower the compression a little more? You use this just for racing so it don't matter if your running race gas or you run a bunch of gas through it play riding too?

Can you post info on the clutch and pics?


Mostly I'm racing. 180PSI is probably a good compromise for both racing and play riding. I don't use more than two or three gallons per year for play riding.

The head of the clutch bolt is a bit recessed. I had to use a C clamp to get at it. The bolt didn't come out very easily. I thought the threads may have been damaged but, they look okay.

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Author:  afastcar [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Have you thought about using a cool Head?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CR ... tsupported
Author:  hoser [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
MrClean wrote:
hoser wrote:

I will cc both of them to see how many cc's they are, did you want me to increase the volume of the one that came on the Engine to lower the compression a little more? You use this just for racing so it don't matter if your running race gas or you run a bunch of gas through it play riding too?

Can you post info on the clutch and pics?


Mostly I'm racing. 180PSI is probably a good compromise for both racing and play riding. I don't use more than two or three gallons per year for play riding.

The head of the clutch bolt is a bit recessed. I had to use a C clamp to get at it. The bolt didn't come out very easily. I thought the threads may have been damaged but, they look okay.


Pics of the damage?
Author:  MrClean [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
afastcar wrote:
Have you thought about using a cool Head?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CR ... tsupported



I've thought about it. But... What do I do about the two coolant inlets? My head only has one.
Author:  MrClean [ Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
hoser wrote:
MrClean wrote:
hoser wrote:

I will cc both of them to see how many cc's they are, did you want me to increase the volume of the one that came on the Engine to lower the compression a little more? You use this just for racing so it don't matter if your running race gas or you run a bunch of gas through it play riding too?

Can you post info on the clutch and pics?


Mostly I'm racing. 180PSI is probably a good compromise for both racing and play riding. I don't use more than two or three gallons per year for play riding.

The head of the clutch bolt is a bit recessed. I had to use a C clamp to get at it. The bolt didn't come out very easily. I thought the threads may have been damaged but, they look okay.


Pics of the damage?


I cleaned-up the bolt and put a good light on it. The threads are flattened off. I'll have to look for a replacement.

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Author:  afastcar [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:05 am ]
Post subject: 
MrClean wrote:
afastcar wrote:
Have you thought about using a cool Head?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CR ... tsupported



I've thought about it. But... What do I do about the two coolant inlets? My head only has one.



We used a 5/8 heater hose T and springs that we got from a local parts store you can see the results on this post.

http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=60
Author:  MrClean [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
hoser wrote:

The cylinder measures 3.583

91mm = 3.582

Most Wiseco pistons come to fit the final bore, example if you order a 91mm piston its smaller than 91mm it requires a 91mm hole by time you add in the proper clearance, is their any chance you can get someone to measure a 91mm wiseco before they ship to see what the clearance will be? I hate to order a piston just to have to send it back because its a few thousands too small, the other option is to just send the cylinder out for a new sleeve.
.


So... It sounds like the current bore is .001 too big. LA Sleeve is only about an hour's drive from my work. I'll probably end-up droping the cylinder off there. That is unless... You've heard of people having bad experiences with LA Sleeve?
Author:  MrClean [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CR500 Poofkaboom and hoser CSI
Hoser wrote:

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Parts list (((don't ORDER ANYTHING YET)))

94301-14200 Pin A, Dowel (Dowel pin for Engine mount just need one)
90701-HE0-000 (Dowel pins for crank cases your old ones are stuck and will be junk when I remove NEED TWO )
91201-402-015 (Seal for the right crank case cover must have forgot to list this on the other order)



//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



Okay... Just let me know when the shopping list is ready.

Thanks for everything, Hoser.
Author:  hoser [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Add reed petals to your list, actually I will go back and add it for you.

The reed petals are toast. vforce bad reeds

Looks like the first generation Vforce cage?

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Author:  hoser [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Your cylinder to crank case matching has the same problem Afastcars CR500 had, I will match it up for you .

ATVR porting miss match

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Author:  hoser [ Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Its hard to believe they could miss this when you look at the old gasket their is a huge red flag, you can see the impression in the gasket showing things don't match.

Never heard anything bad about LA Sleeve installations let me know where to ship..

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Author:  MrClean [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
afastcar wrote:
Have you thought about using a cool Head?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CR ... tsupported



I'm thinking about the Cool Head more and more.

I hijacked the attached pictures from another message board.

I wonder how much compression I'll get with the 63cc dome?

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Author:  hoser [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Your Engine is rebuilt and done except for installing the head reed cage and intake.

The cylinder is back from the sleeve guy and looks good, they did some epoxy work on the bottom of the sleeve and I am not sure why, was their a snafu when they machined the old cylinder out or was it done intentionally so they could lock the sleeve in the cylinder so it cant move, I guess you would (and should) call and ask them.

The exhaust bridge was relieved by the sleeve guy but the lube holes were not drilled so I located and drilled them for you.

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Author:  hoser [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
I put some blue arrows where the epoxy filler is.

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Author:  MrClean [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
hoser wrote:
Your Engine is rebuilt and done except for installing the head reed cage and intake.

The cylinder is back from the sleeve guy and looks good, they did some epoxy work on the bottom of the sleeve and I am not sure why, was their a snafu when they machined the old cylinder out or was it done intentionally so they could lock the sleeve in the cylinder so it cant move, I guess you would (and should) call and ask them.

The exhaust bridge was relieved by the sleeve guy but the lube holes were not drilled so I located and drilled them for you.


Thanks Hoser!

I called Northwest sleeve. They said that it's normal to have a gap between the bottom of the sleeve and the cylinder for CR500s, Banshees, and a few others. Supposedly, the epoxy is there for purely cosmetic reasons. The lady I spoke with mentioned that some of their competitors don't even bother fill the space with epoxy. They do it simply because it "looks better". She promised me that if anything had gone wrong with the machining process, I would have received a phone call.
Author:  hoser [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
MrClean wrote:
hoser wrote:
Your Engine is rebuilt and done except for installing the head reed cage and intake.

The cylinder is back from the sleeve guy and looks good, they did some epoxy work on the bottom of the sleeve and I am not sure why, was their a snafu when they machined the old cylinder out or was it done intentionally so they could lock the sleeve in the cylinder so it cant move, I guess you would (and should) call and ask them.

The exhaust bridge was relieved by the sleeve guy but the lube holes were not drilled so I located and drilled them for you.


Thanks Hoser!

I called Northwest sleeve. They said that it's normal to have a gap between the bottom of the sleeve and the cylinder for CR500s, Banshees, and a few others. Supposedly, the epoxy is there for purely cosmetic reasons. The lady I spoke with mentioned that some of their competitors don't even bother fill the space with epoxy. They do it simply because it "looks better". She promised me that if anything had gone wrong with the machining process, I would have received a phone call.


Sounds good I am glad you called them.
Author:  hoser [ Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CR500 Poofkaboom and hoser CSI
How has this been working out for you?
Author:  shoubadaba [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CR500 Poofkaboom and hoser CSI
I believe he sold the pilot early last year.
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