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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22102
Location: Chicago
The night before I was to leave for Florida I found two boxes on my door step Mudbogger had bought another basket case Pilot Engine had it shipped to me for CSI, I don't know the details I will let Mudbogger fill you in.

Update he bought this Engine from nitrosport_5 who bought it as a basket case Pilot The rest of the Pilot is here "Alabama Pilot Wreck" viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9241


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:50 am 
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Location: Chicago
So far it looks very complete it also looks like its been taken apart then put back togther for shipping.

Included was the stock clutch, CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition), timer box, wiring harness, mount for CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) complete Engine in parts.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:53 am 
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Location: Chicago
Over all pics of the Engine as found out of the box.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:55 am 
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Location: Chicago
Looks like someone got the balancer about 1/2 way out of the Engine, they beat the shit out of the end of the balancer shaft assume they were trying to get the bearing off all they did was wast their time going caveman I used a small puller and pulled the bearing off the balancer shaft.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:59 am 
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Location: Chicago
The wrong tools and procedures were used to remove the flywheel so the end of the crank shaft is damaged I think it can be saved.

It appears that the crank shaft has been replaced before the rod feels nice and tight, will have to do a real close inspection of the crank once cleaned up when spinning the crank in the cases the flywheel end has a wobble in it telling me the crank is either twisted or they bent the crank by using the WRONG flywheel puller to remove the flywheel be a shame to turn a 500.00 crankshaft into a paper weight simply because someone didnt want to buy the right puller :shock: then where you going to get a replacement crankshaft?


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:00 pm 
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1/2 the crank case removed.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Both crank cases has been welded up assume a past Engine failure damaged them, the repairs look quality I will take a real close look after the cases are cleaned up and the gasket surfaces lapped.

Engine is all apart today I will clean up the parts and inspect them then build a parts list.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Posts: 2014
Location: St. John, Washington
That was my alabama basket case Engine. the crank was like that when i started to take it apart (the improper tool damage). don't know the history of the Engine. I can tell you that the crank is not true. it was spun on the pin that connects the 2 halves together i believe. When i got the pilot here the clutch had quite the wobble to it. Im guessing that is why the pilot was parked in the weeds for 10+ years. I was going to rebuild but ended up going the sled Engine route. looking forward to seeing what you do with the Engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Location: Chicago
nitrosport_5 wrote:
That was my alabama basket case Engine. the crank was like that when i started to take it apart (the improper tool damage). don't know the history of the Engine. I can tell you that the crank is not true. it was spun on the pin that connects the 2 halves together i believe. When i got the pilot here the clutch had quite the wobble to it. Im guessing that is why the pilot was parked in the weeds for 10+ years. I was going to rebuild but ended up going the sled Engine route. looking forward to seeing what you do with the Engine.


I could also see the wobble in the crank just spinning it by hand on the bench but was not 100% sure if it was the crank or bearings I will finish cleaning it up today and put it on the V blocks and see if its spun on the pin if so I bet Speedchaser can true it and weld the pin, at first glance that crank looks like a low hour crank once clean I can tell for sure.

Thanks for filling in some of the details.

Thanks for rescuing, restoring and saving that "Alabama Pilot Wreck" I will do my best to see that the Engine lives on long into the future. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9241


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Posts: 2014
Location: St. John, Washington
hoser wrote:
nitrosport_5 wrote:
That was my alabama basket case Engine. the crank was like that when i started to take it apart (the improper tool damage). don't know the history of the Engine. I can tell you that the crank is not true. it was spun on the pin that connects the 2 halves together i believe. When i got the pilot here the clutch had quite the wobble to it. Im guessing that is why the pilot was parked in the weeds for 10+ years. I was going to rebuild but ended up going the sled Engine route. looking forward to seeing what you do with the Engine.


I could also see the wobble in the crank just spinning it by hand on the bench but was not 100% sure if it was the crank or bearings I will finish cleaning it up today and put it on the V blocks and see if its spun on the pin if so I bet Speedchaser can true it and weld the pin, at first glance that crank looks like a low hour crank once clean I can tell for sure.

Thanks for filling in some of the details.

Thanks for rescuing, restoring and saving that "Alabama Pilot Wreck" I will do my best to see that the Engine lives on long into the future. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9241" ."..


Once Mud wanted the Engine i knew that if anyone could save it, you guys could. I am happy to see that it will get salvaged if at all possible. I hope that it is in fact just spun on the pin rather than bent or somthing else. Also just for clarification that CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) is not a stock CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition). It is a no-rev CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) modified by Bill here on the forums. I sent pretty much every Engine related part i had for it, hoses, harness everything. Good luck with the rebuild and thank you for helping save good old parts!

And thanks for the kind words on the alabama pilot. I really enjoy bringing a machine back from the dead. Excpecially when you can take a machine that was in the shape that it was in, and make it a runner again!

Also, not to get off topic, have you gotten a chance to check out the mismatched porting picture that i posted for you on my seadoo intake? I am not sure how to go about matching the intake to the case. any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Yeah I noticed that CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) had been modified I am sure Mudbogger will find a real good use for it soon :-)

I cleaned up the crank to take a closer look their is enough surface rust on the lobes of the crank to justify pressing it apart to inspect the pin and the bearing to ensure its not rusted so will see if Mudbogger wants it sent to Speedchaser and if Speedchaser has enough time to mess with it right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Hoser is that rusted down on the main bearing pin ?


I have one crank of Mudbogger's here that I will be get to in March

thanks Speedy


Image


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Is the pin something that can be replaced or is it a item that is no longer available?


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Location: hole above ground
Hoser

Tip I use a old set of bearing when I check a crank

I hone the center hole of the bearing out so it will slip on to the crank
Then

Take a other small id bearing put in the lathe chuck tighten down hard to lock up the center of the bearing and carbide out the Id to fit the other side of the crank

Now you have the same od bearings to level off the crank in the v blocks
plus it turns a lot easier with less drag

next indicate the crank lobs I use two indicators

speedy


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm 
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davidafco wrote:
Is the pin something that can be replaced or is it a item that is no longer available?


you would just replace it all with a rod kit
rod ,bearing , rod bearing pin , two trust washers

the cr500 will work but the end of the rod. smaller end needs to be machined to fit the pilot piston

plus I think hotrods and prox makes rods kits for the pilot all so


speedy


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22102
Location: Chicago
I tried to lap the crank cases but they are too far out tolerance for my lapping setup to correct I would also like to ship the cases to Speedchaser for him to work his magic on if you don't mind, after lapping I bolted the cases together and you can see day light where the cases has the weld repair, maybe Speedchaser has a better lapping table with a coarse lapping compound that can straighten them out if not they will require machining, don't think they need any more welding.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
hoser wrote:
I tried to lap the crank cases but they are too far out tolerance for my lapping setup to correct I would also like to ship the cases to Speedchaser for him to work his magic on if you don't mind, after lapping I bolted the cases together and you can see day light where the cases has the weld repair, maybe Speedchaser has a better lapping table with a coarse lapping compound that can straighten them out if not they will require machining, don't think they need any more welding.


Hoser if Speedchaser is ok with it please do! Speed, this ok with you sir?


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:14 pm 
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Mudbogger wrote:
hoser wrote:
I tried to lap the crank cases but they are too far out tolerance for my lapping setup to correct I would also like to ship the cases to Speedchaser for him to work his magic on if you don't mind, after lapping I bolted the cases together and you can see day light where the cases has the weld repair, maybe Speedchaser has a better lapping table with a coarse lapping compound that can straighten them out if not they will require machining, don't think they need any more welding.


Hoser if Speedchaser is ok with it please do! Speed, this ok with you sir?


yep as long i get it at the beginning of the week so I can get done and back to hoser
was going to ship that cylinder that leaked to hose this week so I will wait in tell I receive this case
so i can ship it all to him

Make sure that hoser ships the case bolt so I can bolt it together



thanks speedy


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Location: Chicago
speedchaser wrote:
Mudbogger wrote:
hoser wrote:
I tried to lap the crank cases but they are too far out tolerance for my lapping setup to correct I would also like to ship the cases to Speedchaser for him to work his magic on if you don't mind, after lapping I bolted the cases together and you can see day light where the cases has the weld repair, maybe Speedchaser has a better lapping table with a coarse lapping compound that can straighten them out if not they will require machining, don't think they need any more welding.


Hoser if Speedchaser is ok with it please do! Speed, this ok with you sir?


yep as long i get it at the beginning of the week so I can get done and back to hoser
was going to ship that cylinder that leaked to hose this week so I will wait in tell I receive this case
so i can ship it all to him

Make sure that hoser ships the case bolt so I can bolt it together



thanks speedy



I will ship them in the morning USPS


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
Thanks Hoser and Speed. Hoser, I am sending you that top end for a bore as well tomorrow AM UPS.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Crank cases and crankshaft were boxed and shipped to Speedchaser by UPS this morning he should get them tomorrow with his regular UPS delivery, sent you both the tracking number.

Here is a list of parts I will need to rebuild this Engine, I already sent you a list of parts I need to rebuild the other Pilot Engine that came with the LT Pilot and you have sent some of the parts on that list, don't confuse the two engines and the parts list. it might get confusing before were done :-)

Right case oil seal 91201-402-015
Right crank case seal 91203-HE0-003
Left crank case seal 91204-HE0-003
Right crank case bearing 91033-HE0-005
Left crank case bearing 91032-HE0-005
Engine gasket kit 061A0-HE0-000
Reed cage gasket 14132-KAE-000
Need 2 Right case dowels 94301-10160 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available))
Need 2 Crank case dowel pin 90701-HE0-000 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available))
Need 2 Cylinder dowels 94301-12200 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available))
Need 4 BIG dowel pin for Engine mount plate 94301-14200 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available))
91001-KA4-003 Bearing, Radial Ball
91201-148-003 Oil Seal
90437-HE0-000 Washer, Plain
91002-HE0-004 Bearing, Radial Ball
90441-706-000 Washer, Sealing
90454-KA4-000 Washer

Full gasket kit.
81mm piston kit
91003-HE0-003 Bearing, Connecting Rod Small End

All the dowel pins were rusted in the cases I had to crush them then beat them out with a punch to remove.

The cylinder has enough wear rust and scaring it needs bored to the next size.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
Thanks Hoser, I will get on this parts list ASAP. I ordered a PRO-X ROD KIT already and had that item shipped to SPeedchaser yesterday. You have listed 2 full gasket sets, is that an oversight and you need only 1?


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:01 pm 
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[quote="hoser"]Crank cases and crankshaft were boxed and shipped to Speedchaser by UPS this morning he should get them tomorrow with his regular UPS delivery, sent you both the tracking number.

Here is a list of parts I will need to rebuild this Engine, I already sent you a list of parts I need to rebuild the other Pilot Engine that came with the LT Pilot and you have sent some of the parts on that list, don't confuse the two engines and the parts list. it might get confusing before were done :-) UPDATED 3/15/2012

Right case oil seal 91201-402-015 sent 1
Right crank case seal 91203-HE0-003 sent 2 got them from Randy
Left crank case seal 91204-HE0-003 sent 2 got them from Randy
Right crank case bearing 91033-HE0-005 sent 1 nissan bearing
Left crank case bearing 91032-HE0-005 sent 1 SKF BRAND
Engine gasket kit 061A0-HE0-000 Sent 1 Vesrah full kit
Reed cage gasket 14132-KAE-000 sent 2
Need 2 Right case dowels 94301-10160 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available)) sent 2
Need 2 Crank case dowel pin 90701-HE0-000 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available)) Ordered from SERVICE
Need 2 Cylinder dowels 94301-12200 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available)) NOT DISCONTINUEDSENDING 2
Need 4 BIG dowel pin for Engine mount plate 94301-14200 ((Order 4 or 6 of these if available)) Sent 4
91001-KA4-003 Bearing, Radial Ball NOT DISCONTINUED SENDING 1
91201-148-003 Oil Seal DISCONTINUEDNEW PART NUMBER 91201-965-000 SUPERCEEDS sending 1
90437-HE0-000 Washer, Plain Ordered from SERVICE
91002-HE0-004 Bearing, Radial Ball91002-HEO-004, superceeded by 91002-HEO-003, which cross references to many models, all the way up to 2012 TRX250.Sending 1!

90441-706-000 Washer, Sealing sent 1
90454-KA4-000 Washersent 1

Full gasket kit. sent 1 Vesrah set see above
81mm piston kit ordered from RCKY MTN WILL SHIP TO YOU DIRECT
91003-HE0-003 Bearing, Connecting Rod Small End Ordered from RCKY MTN with piston kit DIRECT ship to you

All the dowel pins were rusted in the cases I had to crush them then beat them out with a punch to remove.

The cylinder has enough wear rust and scaring it needs bored to the next bore size.

I will send a OEM FUEL FILTER and a SPEEDCHASER HEAD with this order. The parts not listed will be ordered tonight from SERVICE. I am awaiting still my bottom end bearings and seals from Randy STILL, as soon as they get here I will send them over to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Posts: 5508
Location: New Jersey
SERVICE ORDER for this motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) and stock for future projects:

Your Cart
Part Number Quantity Description List Price Your Price! Order
12191-HE0-000 4 GASKET, CYLINDER $25 $19.52
14132-KAE-000 4 GASKET A, REED VALVE $11.84 $9.24
94301-14200 6 PIN, DOWEL (14X20) $7.32 $6.24
90441-706-000 4 WASHER (6MM) $4 $2.84
90454-KA4-000 4 WASHER (8X13) $9.16 $7.16
94301-10160 6 PIN, DOWEL (10X16) $7.08 $6.06
91203-KS6-004 4 OIL SEAL (30X45X8) $43.48 $33.96
91003-HE0-003 2 BEARING $29.86 $23.32
90701-HE0-000 6 PIN, DOWEL (10X28) $21.84 $17.04
94301-12200 4 PIN, DOWEL (12X20) $4.72 $4.04
91001-KA4-003 4 BEARING (12X28X7) $53.76 $41.96
91201-148-003 4 OIL SEAL (12X22X5) $13.16 $10.28
91002-HE0-004 4 BEARING (S6205) $52.72 $41.2
12191-HE0-000 4 GASKET, CYLINDER $25 $19.52

Totals :

$308.94

$242.38
YOU SAVE: $66.56

I tryed to order part number 90437-HE0-000 WASHER but it would not take it online for some reason. I'll have to call tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilot Engine CSI -
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Sounds good.

don't forget the to include the Engine mount plates bolts and nuts in the next shipment.

This Engine is the most complete and in the best shape out of the two I am currently working on for you so the focus will be on this Engine, I will borrow new parts you have sent for the other Engine (other Engine is here in this thread viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9256" .".. ) if needed on this Engine so it can be completed, once this Engine is done I will inventory what I have and see what else is needed to complete the other Engine.

Sound like a plan?

The stock head that came with this Engine was not flat so I put it in the lathe and made a skim cut removing about .005 to true it up then lapped it flat, its another good stock head for your inventory.

In the pics the red arrow is pointing to the dull gray area that is the high spots the blue arrow is pointing to the shiny or low areas that did not contact the lapping plate.


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