Well fellas, my disheartening experiences with the Ody continue. I finally got the Ody fuel tank issue fixed and was able to take it out for a good run yesterday morning. I drove it around for a good 15 min and it didn't shut down on me, so I figured I fixed my problem. I decided to get together with a few friends and go out for a nice long ride. Everything was going great. I was having a blast in this thing. About 30-45 min into our ride I was going down a long straight WOT (Wide Open Throttle) and all of a sudden it was like it hit a rev limiter. It slowed down and then just shut off. That was it, she was done. It would crank, and it felt like it had compression, but it would never turn over. I immediately thought my fuel problem was back. No dice though this time. No matter what I did it would not start back up. After a long tow home, I pulled the plug and did a compression test. She was at 80 lbs :(

I pulled the head and took some pics for you guys. Any idea as to why this happened? The plug does not look too bad and was hard to get an accurate picture of. Not sure what is going on. I was told it was jetted a little on the rich side, so I wouldn't have thought I had leaned it out.







Also I noticed oil leaking here when i was done riding. Does this meen I have too much in there or is this common?

WTF?

What did you do to fix the tank?

You were running the same jetting that thing was way over rich at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) is it possible you had a momentary loss or a reduction in flow on the long WOT (Wide Open Throttle) run?

Only thing I can think of on trans is the oil is foaming in the trans when you ride and the cap is vented its making its way up to the vent? What kind of and brand of oil are you using in the trans?

I ended up replacing some of the fuel lines with better lines. Got rid of the crap oddatv ones. Also scrapped the powdercoat off the tank under the reserve/main valve switch. I think it was sucking air from this point.

I am running the same jetting you left in it. It didnt seem to have any issues up untill it shut down on me.

I'll have to get back to you on the trans oil. I don't remember what was put in it.

man that sucks. on the trans, how much oil did you put in? you are only aupposed to fill it till it starts dripping out of the check bolt

Update:

Nelly dropped off his Odyssey Friday I pulled the top end first thing to take off was the intake soon as I removed the K&N filter I was greeted with the typical DIRT the K&N filter DOES NOT STOP this is why it says in the K&N instructions that comes with every filter you void the warranty if you use their filters off road where the DIRT IS.

Note the yellow arrows they are pointing to the dirt in the next pics.

If you don't lose this K&N filter plan on spending about 1000.00 to rebuild your Engine real soon.

Carb and intake thing removed I pulled the rubber intake boot to expose the dirt the K&N filter is not stopping.

Went in the house to get a clean Q tips

When Nelly dropped off the Odyssey he was talking hose clamps he had changed and fuel line he had changed, for the heck of it I pulled on the pulse tube with one hand and it came right off the clamp was not holding very well not sure if it vibrated loose or if after a few heat cycles the heat soften up the line and the clamp sunk into the line, I replaced it with a worm drive clamp, can pull on it with both hands and it wont come off.

Next pulled the cylinder and head off yuck!

Bottom end has water and dirt in it, not sure how the water got in but am pretty sure how the dirt git their.

Soaked up as much water as I could with new paper towels then used compressed air to blow as much water out of the bottom end as I could then rotated the crank a bunch of times still blowing with compressed air then once I seen no more water coming out went in the house found a hair dryer and fired it up and blew hot air in the bottom end a while, once I had all the water drops out that I could see I gave it a good douche with 2 stroke oil on all the bearings and rotated the crank a while to work it in and hopefully collect any left over moisture.

Piston out on the bench.

Cylinder slightly scuffed it cleaned up real easy with the hone.

Per discussion with Nelly before I even started wrenching we decided since we were still not 100% sure WTF caused this to happen I was going to clean up the stuck piston and make it work no use feeding this Engine a new piston to find out their is still a problem.

So doing like the racers do I removed the piston and filed, sanded, buffed out all the high spots on the piston, then since we are going 100% caveman on this piston I took a drill bit and drilled dimples in the piston every place I seen where it was scuffed mainly where it was trying to do the 4 corner seize up.

Not stopping their I put the piston in the lathe and cut in some oil grooves trying to copy the grooves I have seen on other OEM pistons, this helps the piston carry more oil. http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9938 I did not cut a groove that would line up with one of the lube holes, not sure why it didnt look like a good idea at the time for some reason.

After looking at the rings with a magnifying glass (thanks Afastcar) I seen no significant scuffing that chrome coating they use is tough shit, put the rings in the cylinder they seem round still so I gave the cylinder a light hone and put it all back together again.

Looking at the piston I would say Nelly is the new resident Guinea pig, once we verify all the fuel and other problems are solved then we can install a new piston, at this point (after a few rides) I don't see why he cant finish this season with this piston, time will tell.

Is this pipe in a pipe thing right on these DG pipes?

It makes no sense to have it, it looks like the anti reversion cone idea they use on 4 stroke headers to keep exhaust from flowing back into a cylinder before the exhaust valve can fully close.

If you look in the head pipe it sticks in and creates something for the gases trying to get back into the Engine before the exhaust port closes to be hung up on.

While I had the cylinder on the bench I stuck the head pipe in the manifold and took some pics look how that pipe fits up past the exhaust manifold into the exhaust port tunnel and how it can affect flow, again IS THIS NORMAL????

Looks to me that the pipe sticking into free air like that could become red hot on a long WOT (Wide Open Throttle) run since its setting in the flame a lot then could pre-ignite air/fuel as it is forced back into the cylinder before the exhaust port is closed, just guessing here thoughts guys? Is everybody successfully running this setup???

Watch the animation see how the fresh air/gas mixture (GREEN) is sucked out into the pipe the stuffed back into the cylinder by the returning pulse wave (like a super charger) before the piston closes.

Reassembled the Engine and fired it up soon as it fired I seen a puff of smoke bellow out behind the seat as I revved up the Engine I could see the exhaust pressure is trying to push the pipe off the manifold thing, as the Engine returns back to idle the pipe slides back, NOT GOOD to have a exhaust leaking 4-5" from the piston, look at the animation in the last post, you can suck in air and dirt then stuff that extra air into the cylinder creating a lean condition no different than a air leak on the intake side.. Air getting into the Engine without going through the carb and being mixed with gas to maintain the right air/fuel ratio is BAD!

I gotta find some stronger springs to hold the pipe on tight under all conditions.

Glad I dumped a bunch of extra oil in the bottom end when cleaning up the oil mess..

Next I removed the clutch to see if I could help this clutch some it engages way too low RPM and is almost always in a bog.

I drilled the holes in the pucks from the factory about 3/16 hole to 1/2" hole to remove weight, reinstalled the clutch this helped some but this thing needs another spring its way too soft the Engine cant really get on the pipe until you hold it WOT (Wide Open Throttle) for about 600' on the paved road then the RPMs gets up high enough its starting to run right..

Ouch! That piston looks worse then I thought it would. The water might be my fault. Was the spark plug tight when you took it apart? I ask because I washed the Ody before bringing it to you, and maybe some of it got in from that? As for the exhaust I think it is the way it was designed. The inner tube probably lined up to the lip that use to be in there before you ported it.

I don't remember on the spark plug but you could be right that would make sense how the water got in.

I think your right on the exhaust pipe thing I never had one of the DG pipes in my hands nobody has ever post pics or talked about the stub of pipe being in the manifold like I show and describe, if it is factory I don't see the need, it reduces flow, makes the inside smaller, its a double edge sword what you see looking in the exhaust port pics I took is what you would see from inside the pipe looking out its a flow restrictor both directions.

If I removed it then the pipe would seal to the Engine same as all other pipes do,I have never seen other pipes use this method, so I ask other DG pipe owners is this a normal pipe or has someone added this short length of pipe inside the head pipe in effort to make sealing better?

I would have guessed the water was sucked in thru the carb. From the look of the pipe thru the cylinder that don't look right to me but what wdo I know. The pipe would do nuttin but dissrupt flow I would think from the look of things.

Agreed that pipe looks all wrong to me that's why I was asking other DG owners if they have the same setup on their 350, removing it looks all win win to me unless I am missing something, more chances for a leak but that's easily fixed with silicone sealer and letting it set 24 hrs so it can sure before you try to start the Engine.

Will wait to get some feed back from other owners, found two stronger springs off a snowmobile exhaust and installed pipe does not move at all now.

Also need advice from other 94C or Comet Duster clutch owners what are you guys running for a spring and pucks? Nellys clutch info is located in this thread and this one http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9874 note that I have drilled the holes in the pucks out to 1/2" everything else is the same, no gram scale here to weigh them for weight change.

Still drilled to 1/2 the clutch is up-shifting too fast and getting a bog heck it wont even spin the tires in grass from a standing start it takes off good for about 10' just when you think its going to get on the pipe it bogs then slowly recovers at about 50'

Thanks

From the pics I can find on the net the pipe looks to be an original piece. Here are 2 new ones for sale on ebay. On both the extra inner pipe can be seen in the pics.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DG-National-2-Stroke-Pipe-Honda-FL350-Odyssey-exhaust-muffler-silencer-/250857251468?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3a6841e28c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DG-Performance-Xtreme-Pipe-Honda-FL350-exhaust-muffler-/250794098127?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3a647e3dcf

Yeah I can see it in both pics, good find, I still don't like it wish I had some feed back here from other owners, it looks like it needs hoserized to me I think I will pull the pipe off and remove it then see if their is a sealing issue, with it removed it will remove the choke point between the piston and the body of the pipe, it gets smaller when you reach this piece then after it opens back up to the same size as in the port tunnel, looks like a great restrictor device to me.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

All the full modified FL350 cylinders I have ever seen have a huge exhaust tunnel on them not all choked down like this one at the pipe HEY NUKEM!!!!

Ok two springs got here Saturday thanks! Had too much going with family so had no time to wrench Saturday so I worked on it today.


Removed the orange spring installed the white spring made it much better but still a strong bog from standing start and when your rolling about 15 mph you hold it WOT (Wide Open Throttle) never seen 5k RPM, back to the shop removed the white spring installed the yellow spring took for another test run, will all most spin the tires from a standing start and I can see over 5200 RPM when I hold it WOT (Wide Open Throttle) from rolling start.

Took it down the paved road say 6600 RPM at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) for about 1/4 mile.

No clue how accurate the tach is I am using one of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/251075679429?it ... 23&vxp=mtr

Seat of the pants tells me the clutching is much better but still not where it should be, should be no hint of a bog at any time, will let Nelly test it see what he thinks and if it fits his style of riding, too much RPM is not fun in tight woods.

Still not clear to me if we have the correct pucks for these springs no numbers on the pucks no clue how you tell what you have.

Awesome! I cant wait to try it out!

Hey "H" it looks like a stuffer. If he bought the pipe some where and the cylinder has not been ported I would think it would do more harm than good as it will hurt top end power. If the pipe came with a ported cylinder than I would think it was to improve the bottom end due to the porting change. If the ody had a stock clutch and top end porting than I could see it being there however if the ody was clutched for a higher rpm than I would say may not be needed. You could change the length a little and taper it to blend better and do some testing. Just use caution as not to make the leading edge to thin and create a hot spot for the stuffing charge or it will cook it off. If so I would log its length and dia and the changes then test till you find the sweet spot fall off then make a new one to the best spot. The smaller dia will speed up exhaust flow out the cylinder changing the pipes tune lower in the rpm band. Been a while since I played with a DG on a ody but burned a few up using the pipe. Nelly, I dout the water was from a wash job unless it went down the carb since water was on the intake side of the reeds. That and the seizure marks it sure looks like it lacked some lube toward the intake side and it swelled from there. Run through some water holes or what. If not was there a water cooled head? One thing for sure water is bad news for an Engine

"H" I noticed in one of the pics that there was a couple of ground wires unhook buy the clutch which may be from wrenching just wanted to mention.