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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I got my piston drilled, rings installed and end gap set after measuring the cylinder and doing the math I came up with (cylinder bore size) 81.19" so going with wisco's paper I figured that I needed .054 gap. If anybody comes up with something else let me know please, if I am wrong. I also cleaned up the exhaust flange and got it to fit and match up with the exhaust port. You can't feel the transition between the two. so I think that should be good enough. I am hoping to get the cylinder and head installed tomorrow. Maybe get the heat cycles done this weekend? Here are some of the pics so far. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
That don't look right.
I think wiseco says .004 per inch of bore.
So according to your measurements that's 3.196" bore X .004 = .0127 ring gap.
I think you are looking for about .013 gap but you will find that wiseco rings right out of
the box already have a large gap. I bet money it's already .020 because that's what I have
found on all five of my rebuilds. I love wiseco.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3294
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Dumb question...Did you push the rings down into the bore with the piston and then measure to make sure its the same distance from the crown, yea I know dumb question but its something I would do if I had the radio up jammin and or wifey yellin bout whatever


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin: I don't know how big a radiator your gona run but if it is the same one I am using (Honda civic) then you are gona find that the Engine won't go over 120'F. Right now I am using a relay/probe from performance world to turn the pump on/off. When temp hits 185'F pump runs until temp reaches 170'F then it turns the pump off. Have not got a chance to try it yet because weather is crap here right now (lots of rain). Just keep this in mind because when I pulled my exhaust I saw some scaring on the intake side of the cylinder. That has never happened to me before on any of the rebuilds I have done. Also the (30yr) mechanic at Honda told me that I was running to cold when he seen my brothers piston that I brought in for him to see and give some advice. He said with a steel liner you have to run the Engine warm. This only confirmed what Hoser had said in a reply to one of my posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
canadian oddy wrote:
That don't look right.
I think wiseco says .004 per inch of bore.
So according to your measurements that's 3.196" bore X .004 = .0127 ring gap.
I think you are looking for about .013 gap but you will find that wiseco rings right out of
the box already have a large gap. I bet money it's already .020 because that's what I have
found on all five of my rebuilds. I love wiseco.

(YOU ARE RIGHT) I messed up, I got to thinking about it last nite and figured out that wasn't right. But that is why I was asking for other opinions. And I do appreciate the help. So I will recheck everything and get back with y'all. The Rad. is off of a banshee so it is not as big as the one you are using. Hell I'm chomping at the bits just to hear it run. LOL Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
stix wrote:
Dumb question...Did you push the rings down into the bore with the piston and then measure to make sure its the same distance from the crown, yea I know dumb question but its something I would do if I had the radio up jammin and or wifey yellin bout whatever

That ain't a dumb question at all. yea I did use the piston and squared it up to install the rings. But shit happens sometimes so I am going to recheck everything today.. Not making excuses but I was in a rush so anything is possible! LOLThanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3294
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
birvin wrote:
stix wrote:
Dumb question...Did you push the rings down into the bore with the piston and then measure to make sure its the same distance from the crown, yea I know dumb question but its something I would do if I had the radio up jammin and or wifey yellin bout whatever

That ain't a dumb question at all. yea I did use the piston and squared it up to install the rings. But shit happens sometimes so I am going to recheck everything today.. Not making excuses but I was in a rush so anything is possible! LOLThanks Billy

In a rush?? Boy do I know how that feels, I was removing my stock drive clutch and ended up wedging a 11mm rod in the crankshaft threads, jammed it all the way to the end of the threads, luckly was able to weld on a nut, impact it out and retap the threads, I hate it when I have a deadline, Oh well live and learn :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
stix wrote:
birvin wrote:
stix wrote:
Dumb question...Did you push the rings down into the bore with the piston and then measure to make sure its the same distance from the crown, yea I know dumb question but its something I would do if I had the radio up jammin and or wifey yellin bout whatever

That ain't a dumb question at all. yea I did use the piston and squared it up to install the rings. But shit happens sometimes so I am going to recheck everything today.. Not making excuses but I was in a rush so anything is possible! LOLThanks Billy

In a rush?? Boy do I know how that feels, I was removing my stock drive clutch and ended up wedging a 11mm rod in the crankshaft threads, jammed it all the way to the end of the threads, luckly was able to weld on a nut, impact it out and retap the threads, I hate it when I have a deadline, Oh well live and learn :shock:

Ok so it ain't just me!!! LOL Today I'm putting everything on hold and working on my Engine.. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
Ok I got the ring end gap problem corrected. Come to find out my calipers were all messed up. I noticed that I kept getting different reading so I checked them with a feeler gage and on .010 it would read maybe .005 or .015 and so on. So I got out the plastic dial set from lowe's and it read .010 every time. Now I could read the rest of my blades (old and the numbers worn off). I set the end gap to .013 cleaned and lubed piston and installed rings. Cleaned and lubed the cylinder installed base gasket (reminder for self) install new dowels before putting piston in cylinder. pulled cylinder and checked rings again, installed dowels and checked rings again then reinstalled cylinder and torqued. Installed exhaust flange, reeds and carb intake. Maybe tomorrow I can resurface the head and check squish and get the leak down test done. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin: you will need to cover that hole around sparkplug. mine filled with water while riding down a road. i put a bead of red silicone around it and one of those sparkplug caps with a wide rubber base from an import.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
canadian oddy wrote:
birvin: you will need to cover that hole around sparkplug. mine filled with water while riding down a road. i put a bead of red silicone around it and one of those sparkplug caps with a wide rubber base from an import.

Thanks Canadian oddy I had not thought of that, very good point. I also still have to install the a temp probe collar as well. But it is coming along. I will be starting it up this week. The whole caliper thing got me good. but it was just one of those things that happens. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I finally got to Install the head last night and pressure test it. I found d a small leak at the exhaust flange that is a easy fix. Then I found that the head gasket was leaking also, I plan on
Removing it tonight to see what's going on with that. I am using the metal gaskets. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin wrote:
I finally got to Install the head last night and pressure test it. I found d a small leak at the exhaust flange that is a easy fix. Then I found that the head gasket was leaking also, I plan on
Removing it tonight to see what's going on with that. I am using the metal gaskets. Thanks Billy


Red silicone that's what I use Baahahahaha.
Yes I am a silicone homo. It works.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
Yes for sure, Permatex has a new one out for high temp applications. I will be getting some in the morning LOL. By the way how is #1 running? I think you said that you put a relay on it for the water pump to come on, have you had pretty good luck with that? I don't use it on anything to do with the water system, seen to many radiators stopped up from it.Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin wrote:
Yes for sure, Permatex has a new one out for high temp applications. I will be getting some in the morning LOL. By the way how is #1 running? I think you said that you put a relay on it for the water pump to come on, have you had pretty good luck with that? I don't use it on anything to do with the water system, seen to many radiators stopped up from it.Thanks Billy


Just run it around the block so far and temp went to 205F and it didn't come on. It should have come on at 185F. So I put a manual over ride switch on it for a back up. I am thinking it just wasn't hot enough at the probe. Gona watch that real close though when I get out. It's raining heavy last couple days n I work this weekend so will take it out next week maybe. Still snow in the hills so will ride down low.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
canadian oddy wrote:
birvin wrote:
Yes for sure, Permatex has a new one out for high temp applications. I will be getting some in the morning LOL. By the way how is #1 running? I think you said that you put a relay on it for the water pump to come on, have you had pretty good luck with that? I don't use it on anything to do with the water system, seen to many radiators stopped up from it.Thanks Billy


Just run it around the block so far and temp went to 205F and it didn't come on. It should have come on at 185F. So I put a manual over ride switch on it for a back up. I am thinking it just wasn't hot enough at the probe. Gona watch that real close though when I get out. It's raining heavy last couple days n I work this weekend so will take it out next week maybe. Still snow in the hills so will ride down low.

I am going to use the same setup to control the fan, I used the headlight switch turn the fan on and off. With the temp gage installed it will make it much easier to control the fan and not have to use any relays. I am always replacing them at work on heating and air conditioners, so believe me I have seen some failure's. I'm using the KISS method on this one. LOL I plan on checking compression and squish (depending on the Honey Do List). Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
birvin wrote:
Yes for sure, Permatex has a new one out for high temp applications. I will be getting some in the morning LOL. By the way how is #1 running? I think you said that you put a relay on it for the water pump to come on, have you had pretty good luck with that? I don't use it on anything to do with the water system, seen to many radiators stopped up from it.Thanks Billy


Just run it around the block so far and temp went to 205F and it didn't come on. It should have come on at 185F. So I put a manual over ride switch on it for a back up. I am thinking it just wasn't hot enough at the probe. Gona watch that real close though when I get out. It's raining heavy last couple days n I work this weekend so will take it out next week maybe. Still snow in the hills so will ride down low.

I am going to use the same setup to control the fan, I used the headlight switch turn the fan on and off. With the temp gage installed it will make it much easier to control the fan and not have to use any relays. I am always replacing them at work on heating and air conditioners, so believe me I have seen some failure's. I'm using the KISS method on this one. LOL I plan on checking compression and squish (depending on the Honey Do List). Thanks Billy


Was a nice day here today so we took them out for a spin. Just got back an hour n half ago.
Mine runs fine but rich at bottom end. My brother said he could here some "crackling" when he blipped full throttle. Both temp probes turned on the pumps just fine. Works good. Had a manual switch hooked up just in case but didn't need it. Comes on at 205' and off at 175' approx.
Pulled the pipe and had a look inside. All good. But we are gona run a lot fatter at the top.
Running 50/50 AVGAS n premium in mine and 100% AVGAS on my brothers. Both machines running 50/1 oil. I know this seems tight but when I did the last rebuild there was actually oil in the case and some running down the rod when I pulled the top end so I am sure 50/1 is good.
Don't like your "I will turn pump on myself" idea. If you forget or get real busy !!!!!!
You have experience with relay failures but why not use both the relay and manual switch ???


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 3294
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Solid state relay?? More reliable


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
canadian oddy wrote:
birvin wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
birvin wrote:
Yes for sure, Permatex has a new one out for high temp applications. I will be getting some in the morning LOL. By the way how is #1 running? I think you said that you put a relay on it for the water pump to come on, have you had pretty good luck with that? I don't use it on anything to do with the water system, seen to many radiators stopped up from it.Thanks Billy


Just run it around the block so far and temp went to 205F and it didn't come on. It should have come on at 185F. So I put a manual over ride switch on it for a back up. I am thinking it just wasn't hot enough at the probe. Gona watch that real close though when I get out. It's raining heavy last couple days n I work this weekend so will take it out next week maybe. Still snow in the hills so will ride down low.

I am going to use the same setup to control the fan, I used the headlight switch turn the fan on and off. With the temp gage installed it will make it much easier to control the fan and not have to use any relays. I am always replacing them at work on heating and air conditioners, so believe me I have seen some failure's. I'm using the KISS method on this one. LOL I plan on checking compression and squish (depending on the Honey Do List). Thanks Billy


Was a nice day here today so we took them out for a spin. Just got back an hour n half ago.
Mine runs fine but rich at bottom end. My brother said he could here some "crackling" when he blipped full throttle. Both temp probes turned on the pumps just fine. Works good. Had a manual switch hooked up just in case but didn't need it. Comes on at 205' and off at 175' approx.
Pulled the pipe and had a look inside. All good. But we are gona run a lot fatter at the top.
Running 50/50 AVGAS n premium in mine and 100% AVGAS on my brothers. Both machines running 50/1 oil. I know this seems tight but when I did the last rebuild there was actually oil in the case and some running down the rod when I pulled the top end so I am sure 50/1 is good.
Don't like your "I will turn pump on myself" idea. If you forget or get real busy !!!!!!
You have experience with relay failures but why not use both the relay and manual switch ???


I see what you are saying, but I had rather depend on myself not completely on a relay. I'm not saying that I won't try one but I will always had rather be safe than sorry. Why are you running a 50:1 ratio and AVGAS? I am running 32:1 and would rather be safe. The way I look at it I would prefer to save my Engine for more riding than take it out for just a few times and do a top end rebuild or weld the ring to the cylinder. Not saying you will but, you are taking a chance at it. The reason that we drill holes in the piston at the exhaust bridge is due to heat build up and a dry condition in the cylinder and the rings sticking, or that is the way I understand it. I could be completely wrong with all this rambling on but It has worked for me. But I do appreciate the advice. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
stix wrote:
Solid state relay?? More reliable

Yes solid state relays are by far a better relay. I may put one in as a back up but my primary will be myself. I am wanting to install a EGT but can't find one that I can afford right now. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7701
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
well u do hav a point 50/1 or 32/1. But i don't care if poofkaboom cause oddzilla 1 just a test bed for the uk crank seal, oil mix, fuel, water cooled head n cylinder etc. We all hav our hobbies lol. It's still cheaper than playin in the world series of poker in vegas every june like we used to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
canadian oddy wrote:
well u do hav a point 50/1 or 32/1. But i don't care if poofkaboom cause oddzilla 1 just a test bed for the uk crank seal, oil mix, fuel, water cooled head n cylinder etc. We all hav our hobbies lol. It's still cheaper than playin in the world series of poker in vegas every june like we used to do.

OK I see what you are saying, and I forgot you are using it as a test bed. I was just asking. If I played poker I would lose the farm, I ain't worth 2 cents at it. LOL Anyway I am hoping to do a compression test today on mine, if it don't storm like they are saying. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I got off work early today due to the server weather in the south, so I took advantage of it and ran a compression test on my Engine. I have spun it a bit before hand to hopefully let the rings do some wear in in the cylinder. Here is what I got on three different checks 120psi. I'm thinking that should be good until I start the break in procedure. Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
This is going to be my new ride if I don't get some time to get my Oddy finished. LOL Maybe more my speed anyway!!!!!!!! Thanks Billy


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 Post subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 9:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I got electrolysis started on my chamber Friday, but it is going slow. I don't thing I had enough soda so I need to pick up more today. Thanks Billy.
Ok got it figured out, I changed to stainless steel on the positive Leeds and that helped. So then I watched a video and the guy was using tin cans and was getting good amp draw. In the end I placed the stainless around the outside of the exhaust and a tin can hooked to them with metal tie wire and placed it in the center opposite of the stainless. That jumped it up to 9 amps and after 11/2 hrs. it dropped to 6 amps and has stayed there for the past 2-3 hrs. and boiling.


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