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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I have changed my Fl350 Engine from air cooled to water cooled, but I am needing longer studs for the head. I need them to be 90mm long. (approximately) From everything I have found out they are grade 8.8, I believe I have seen them on here as a kit but can't find them. If anyone knows where there maybe a good place to get or check please let me know. Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
58 Items Found for BOLT, STUD 8x90
http://www.partzilla.com/search/?q=BOLT ... &x=13&y=12

Found for BOLT, STUD 8x95 http://www.partzilla.com/search/?q=+BOL ... 95&x=0&y=0


Then just a google search https://www.google.com/search?q=BOLT%2C ... channel=sb


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
hoser wrote:

Thanks hoser, I am going to give partzilla a call in the morning. Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
birvin wrote:
hoser wrote:

Thanks hoser, I am going to give partzilla a call in the morning. Thanks Billy

I called partzilla today and all of the bolts that they have are a grade 5 at the best. A typical head bolt (US) is a grade 8 or a grade 10.9 (metric) min. I am thinking of buying the 8mm rod (5/16) grade 8 and making them. I'm sure that there are some machinist on here that could let me know how hard it would be to thread them. If anyone knows please let me know. Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Why do you need longer studs ?? You water cooled the original head didn't you ??
Also threading the grade 8 rod will be a bit of a chore, it can be hard. Make sure you use lots of oil and have a spare die around. The die must be new not some worn out crap from your tool box. Don't force the die. Also the split type adjustable die will break if you don't have the proper handle.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
canadian oddy wrote:
Why do you need longer studs ?? You water cooled the original head didn't you ??
Also threading the grade 8 rod will be a bit of a chore, it can be hard. Make sure you use lots of oil and have a spare die around. The die must be new not some worn out crap from your tool box. Don't force the die. Also the split type adjustable die will break if you don't have the proper handle.


I am looking at options as far as the longer studs. I could bring them up to the top of the head and install the nuts to hold the head on. Or I could make mine like you did and install a gasket or O-ring to seal it, that way if another leak comes up it will be easier to fix. On the rod I plan on taking it to our machine shop and letting them thread it on the lathe, or I will. Mainly just looking at my best options for further down the road. Once I start riding it regular I don't want to spend all day working on it when I could be riding. Then do the PM on it after I get back from a day of riding. Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Why do you need longer studs ?? You water cooled the original head didn't you ??
Also threading the grade 8 rod will be a bit of a chore, it can be hard. Make sure you use lots of oil and have a spare die around. The die must be new not some worn out crap from your tool box. Don't force the die. Also the split type adjustable die will break if you don't have the proper handle.


I am looking at options as far as the longer studs. I could bring them up to the top of the head and install the nuts to hold the head on. Or I could make mine like you did and install a gasket or O-ring to seal it, that way if another leak comes up it will be easier to fix. On the rod I plan on taking it to our machine shop and letting them thread it on the lathe, or I will. Mainly just looking at my best options for further down the road. Once I start riding it regular I don't want to spend all day working on it when I could be riding. Then do the PM on it after I get back from a day of riding. Thanks Billy


I am confused.
You should not need any gasket or O-ring to seal anything.
You welded tubes around the studs so how does any water get to that area ??
On my set up the studs and nuts are inside the water jacket area and the water can only get by the studs and into the combustion chamber if the head gasket leaks. On your set up the water can only get into the tube that surrounds the stud if the tube has a leak. Am I wrong ??
The stock studs should work just fine in my opinion. You may have to put the nuts on with a grabbing tool like needle nose pliers or one of those spring loaded three prong grab tools because your studs are down deep in the tube but still there should be no leaks there right ??


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 4:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
canadian oddy wrote:
birvin wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Why do you need longer studs ?? You water cooled the original head didn't you ??
Also threading the grade 8 rod will be a bit of a chore, it can be hard. Make sure you use lots of oil and have a spare die around. The die must be new not some worn out crap from your tool box. Don't force the die. Also the split type adjustable die will break if you don't have the proper handle.


I am looking at options as far as the longer studs. I could bring them up to the top of the head and install the nuts to hold the head on. Or I could make mine like you did and install a gasket or O-ring to seal it, that way if another leak comes up it will be easier to fix. On the rod I plan on taking it to our machine shop and letting them thread it on the lathe, or I will. Mainly just looking at my best options for further down the road. Once I start riding it regular I don't want to spend all day working on it when I could be riding. Then do the PM on it after I get back from a day of riding. Thanks Billy


I am confused.
You should not need any gasket or O-ring to seal anything.
You welded tubes around the studs so how does any water get to that area ??
On my set up the studs and nuts are inside the water jacket area and the water can only get by the studs and into the combustion chamber if the head gasket leaks. On your set up the water can only get into the tube that surrounds the stud if the tube has a leak. Am I wrong ??
The stock studs should work just fine in my opinion. You may have to put the nuts on with a grabbing tool like needle nose pliers or one of those spring loaded three prong grab tools because your studs are down deep in the tube but still there should be no leaks there right ??

Ok don't be confused. I am just looking at options for a better way to improve the head. I talked to my buddy at the machine shop and he is willing to built a head as a project for me on his CNC so that's where the longer studs come in. And also the gasket or O-rings. Did this help on the confusion??? Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
birvin wrote:
birvin wrote:
hoser wrote:

Thanks hoser, I am going to give partzilla a call in the morning. Thanks Billy

I called partzilla today and all of the bolts that they have are a grade 5 at the best. A typical head bolt (US) is a grade 8 or a grade 10.9 (metric) min. I am thinking of buying the 8mm rod (5/16) grade 8 and making them. I'm sure that there are some machinist on here that could let me know how hard it would be to thread them. If anyone knows please let me know. Thanks Billy


What grade is the studs Honda used for the stock head studs?

Grade 5 studs will not take 30 ft lbs torque?


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
hoser wrote:
birvin wrote:
birvin wrote:
hoser wrote:

Thanks hoser, I am going to give partzilla a call in the morning. Thanks Billy

I called partzilla today and all of the bolts that they have are a grade 5 at the best. A typical head bolt (US) is a grade 8 or a grade 10.9 (metric) min. I am thinking of buying the 8mm rod (5/16) grade 8 and making them. I'm sure that there are some machinist on here that could let me know how hard it would be to thread them. If anyone knows please let me know. Thanks Billy


What grade is the studs Honda used for the stock head studs?

Grade 5 studs will not take 30 ft lbs torque?

From what I could gather the other day on the phone with them was a min. of 10.9 for metric. I will be checking next week on a Rockwell tester so then I will know. Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:04 am
Posts: 465
Location: Springfield Ohio
Strength grade of the head studs are metric 10.9.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7698
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
birvin wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
birvin wrote:
canadian oddy wrote:
Why do you need longer studs ?? You water cooled the original head didn't you ??
Also threading the grade 8 rod will be a bit of a chore, it can be hard. Make sure you use lots of oil and have a spare die around. The die must be new not some worn out crap from your tool box. Don't force the die. Also the split type adjustable die will break if you don't have the proper handle.


I am looking at options as far as the longer studs. I could bring them up to the top of the head and install the nuts to hold the head on. Or I could make mine like you did and install a gasket or O-ring to seal it, that way if another leak comes up it will be easier to fix. On the rod I plan on taking it to our machine shop and letting them thread it on the lathe, or I will. Mainly just looking at my best options for further down the road. Once I start riding it regular I don't want to spend all day working on it when I could be riding. Then do the PM on it after I get back from a day of riding. Thanks Billy


I am confused.
You should not need any gasket or O-ring to seal anything.
You welded tubes around the studs so how does any water get to that area ??
On my set up the studs and nuts are inside the water jacket area and the water can only get by the studs and into the combustion chamber if the head gasket leaks. On your set up the water can only get into the tube that surrounds the stud if the tube has a leak. Am I wrong ??
The stock studs should work just fine in my opinion. You may have to put the nuts on with a grabbing tool like needle nose pliers or one of those spring loaded three prong grab tools because your studs are down deep in the tube but still there should be no leaks there right ??

Ok don't be confused. I am just looking at options for a better way to improve the head. I talked to my buddy at the machine shop and he is willing to built a head as a project for me on his CNC so that's where the longer studs come in. And also the gasket or O-rings. Did this help on the confusion??? Thanks Billy


Ok got it now. If you are getting any water cooled heads made by your buddy remember me :-)


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
That's why I'm trying to find the different studs and also have been looking at different O-rings and material. It wouldn't do any good to build one then not be able to mount it down or connect it up. We are going to try one and see how it works and use it as a test bed. Now that the "Cat is out of the Bag" so to speak LOL do you have any suggestion's? Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
birvin wrote:
That's why I'm trying to find the different studs and also have been looking at different O-rings and material. It wouldn't do any good to build one then not be able to mount it down or connect it up. We are going to try one and see how it works and use it as a test bed. Now that the "Cat is out of the Bag" so to speak LOL do you have any suggestion's? Thanks Billy



Do one like Ziggy does use off the shelf O rings and studs. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13276&view=next


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
hoser wrote:
birvin wrote:
That's why I'm trying to find the different studs and also have been looking at different O-rings and material. It wouldn't do any good to build one then not be able to mount it down or connect it up. We are going to try one and see how it works and use it as a test bed. Now that the "Cat is out of the Bag" so to speak LOL do you have any suggestion's? Thanks Billy



Do one like Ziggy does use off the shelf O rings and studs. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13276&view=next

The O-rings are not a problem, it has been the studs. But we have talked about how to make them and it not be to expensive. The aluminum is going to be the biggest cost, but the labor will be minimal. Trying to keep the price as low as possible and still get a good product. Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
birvin wrote:
hoser wrote:
birvin wrote:
That's why I'm trying to find the different studs and also have been looking at different O-rings and material. It wouldn't do any good to build one then not be able to mount it down or connect it up. We are going to try one and see how it works and use it as a test bed. Now that the "Cat is out of the Bag" so to speak LOL do you have any suggestion's? Thanks Billy



Do one like Ziggy does use off the shelf O rings and studs. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13276&view=next

The O-rings are not a problem, it has been the studs. But we have talked about how to make them and it not be to expensive. The aluminum is going to be the biggest cost, but the labor will be minimal. Trying to keep the price as low as possible and still get a good product. Thanks Billy



Yeah that price of aluminum is always a hard one to over come if your going to make just one you might get lucky and find something at your local recyclers for scrap price you can use but if your going to make a few and have to buy new...


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
I am checking around now for the aluminum to see what I can come up with. Once the first one is built I will post some pics. and cost. One of the first issues the we have talked about is what size the inlet and outlet need to be. I am running a 3/4" on mine but will that work for others? What size is on the pilot? Just in the planning stage so far but I would like some input to look at before we really get to deep into it. The more minds the better. Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: saskatoon, sk, canada
weld on -12 AN fittings. they are roughly 3/4"


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
fully wrote:
weld on -12 AN fittings. they are roughly 3/4"

Ok I'll put it on the list. Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 pm
Posts: 3610
Location: CHICO,CA
i used grade 8 all thread for my head studs

i got it at fasenall


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Anniston, Al
B S wrote:
i used grade 8 all thread for my head studs

i got it at fasenall

Have you ran it much? And have you checked it see if they need to be retorted? Just checking for options, let us know how much run time you have on them and any other info you can provide so we all will have a option to go if needed. Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 pm
Posts: 3610
Location: CHICO,CA
birvin wrote:
B S wrote:
i used grade 8 all thread for my head studs

i got it at fasenall

Have you ran it much? And have you checked it see if they need to be retorted? Just checking for options, let us know how much run time you have on them and any other info you can provide so we all will have a option to go if needed. Thanks Billy

I had only 5 hrs when I sold it
not too sure what the new owner put on it

I checked them before I sold it only one was loose


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