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 Post subject: watercooled head
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Mt Vernon, Illinois
Whats everyones take on a watercooled head, what works and $$$$!. Or what about sled motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )),


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:20 pm
Posts: 778
Location: Joliet, Illinois
Check out the below related topics, that should answer most of your questions on the water cooled heads for the 350...


Welcome to the site!


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
eshelton wrote:
Whats everyones take on a watercooled head, what works and $$$$!. Or what about sled motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )),


Or you could do what I did here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13009&hilit=cooled+water+making
The price was right :-)
Did the cylinder too.
Welcome new guy.


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
If you leave it stock and don't drive it like you stole it, then water cooling isn't necessary.

If you have a modified Engine such as 102c clutch, reeds, pipe, air box mods and an advance key and like to push it hard and or ride in the sand a lot, water cool the head.

I have 2 Ody's. The wife's is bone stock with only a bilge fan mounted above the head and it runs fine and stays cool. Mine on the other hand has been modified quite a bit as listed above and not only do I ride it in the sand a lot, it has to haul around my fat ass so I need all the cooling I can get. If I could get a nice water cooled cylinder for my setup, I would do that also.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:20 pm
Posts: 778
Location: Joliet, Illinois
Not to hijack the thread, but what is the general consensus on water cooling the cylinder as well as the head? or is this overkill?

Just curious,

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Lonerider wrote:
Not to hijack the thread, but what is the general consensus on water cooling the cylinder as well as the head? or is this overkill?

Just curious,

Thanks


Just my opinion but doing the cylinder is as important as the head. Lots of heat there too which will transfer to the piston via the rings. Anything above the exhaust port is combustion area and hot.


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Mt Vernon, Illinois
Ive blown mine up yet again so i believe i need something, we don't have sand where i live but trails so sometimes not a lot of air movement plus i ride hard


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
eshelton wrote:
Ive blown mine up yet again so i believe i need something, we don't have sand where i live but trails so sometimes not a lot of air movement plus i ride hard


See picture below.
I think I learned a few things about the fl350 now right ??
You didn't post any pics so if your piston looks like the two on the left side you are detonating so that means shitty fuel. If it looks like the others it is over heating and this could be caused by poor cooling, lean condition, not enough clearance.
1) Run good quality fuel - read the manual on min octane rating. I now run avgas and it solved my issues.
2) I run .005 piston clearance
3) You MUST do a flow test on your fuel pump - 4.5oz/ten seconds approx using the starter
4) You must do a pressure/vacuum test to check for leaks
5) If your drive it like your stealing it I would liquid cool head and cylinder. I made my own or you can try to find something from someone here or ebay. I did post the short cut to the thread on the head I made and using the search box you can find the cylinder job.
6) When using the search box only enter one word then enter another word in the "search these threads" box.


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
eshelton wrote:
Ive blown mine up yet again so i believe i need something, we don't have sand where i live but trails so sometimes not a lot of air movement plus i ride hard


Jet it properly and make sure it doesn't have any air leaks. If you're burning top ends you have other issues. Water cooling is not a cure all, will only extend the longevity of the top end.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Mt Vernon, Illinois
Im not burning a hole in piston, looks like the piston in the center pic


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
eshelton wrote:
Im not burning a hole in piston, looks like the piston in the center pic


Then it seems you are running hot.
So that means you may be running lean or poor air cooling.
Could also be that you are right on the edge with the fuel octane.
Do a flow test on your fuel pump when you get it together again but don't start it until you do.
What carb you got ?? If it is stock check the jet sizes to the manual. Make sure jets are clean and clear.
Make sure it passes the pressure/vacuum test.
Also make sure you use the metal cylinder base gasket as the paper ones blow out.


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
What oil mix ratio are you running ??
Most here run 32/1 on an air cooled Engine


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
eshelton wrote:
Im not burning a hole in piston, looks like the piston in the center pic


You're having issues because you Ody is not jetted properly..... or has a small air leak..... or you could also be having issues with the three way valve sending too much fuel back to the tank and not enough to the carb.

Are you getting the damage at low rpm's or full throttle?

What was your cylinder to piston clearance after the fresh bore?

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Mt Vernon, Illinois
Stock carb, pilot is 45, main jet is 120, stock air box not modded but i do need a new filter which is not helping matters. How can i do the crankcase test myself


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:04 pm
Posts: 122
Your main jet is wayyy to small at 120...should be at the very least a 138


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
eshelton wrote:
Stock carb, pilot is 45, main jet is 120, stock air box not modded but i do need a new filter which is not helping matters. How can i do the crankcase test myself


If it is truly a 120 main jet you are running, then it's amazing its not burning a hole straight through the top of the piston. An FL350's main jet should be a 142 at sea level. You shouldn't be running a 120 main unless you are operating that thing up above lets say around 15,000 feet in elevation!

As far as the leak down test, check the links below. After blocking the intake and exhaust, use no more than 10psi to pressurize the crankcase and see if the pressure holds. If it doesn't then you need to determine where it's leaking from.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6238&hilit=leakdown

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10507&p=95519&hilit=leakdown#p95519

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
Have to agree with the comments above.
Here are a couple of pics of my test unit.
In the first pic you can see I put a uhmw plug in the intake with a vacuum/pressure gauge that you can buy at any auto store. Also you will see that there is a shrader valve (tire valve) on it so that you can pressure the system up.
In the second pic you can see that I am doing a vacuum test. There is a suction pump that you can buy at any auto store (They are used to remove or ad oil to a rear end on a car or truck). Also in that line you can see a check valve. That's so that the system can hold the vacuum. There is also a fitting on that plate to add a gauge.
Basically my current set up is - I just block off the intake with a plug and I now do everything from that plate on the exhaust. I use an aluminum plate with a inner tube gasket. It' pretty basic but you do need some basic stuff. Also keep in mind that when you do these two tests the pulse tube for the fuel pump must also be blocked off or the pump still hooked up or you will just suck air. Your piston must be at BDC or near the bottom to expose the intake and exhaust ports. I made the mistake of having the piston up once and couldn't figure out why the pressure was dropping. It was because the combustion chamber area wasn't pressured up yet LOL. This is not rocket science, it is fun or at least it better be fun.


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
By the way the pics in the post above show an air cooled Engine with two bilge fans. I don't have this set up anymore. My units are water cooled now. I will be attacked here for saying this but I think the air cooled units are just to fragile. If everything ain't just right ---- booooom. I run liquid cooled, avgas and 50/1 mix with absolutely no issues anymore. Our only issues now are crashes.


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
And I run an Ody with stock air cooling and it runs just fine and have never blown it up and or seized it yet. It's all in the jetting and proper piston setup.

And unless you substantially increase the compression ratio, there is no need for AV Gas either. I would definitely run an air cooled FL350 Engine at no less than 32 to 1. They need all the lube they can get.

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Mt Vernon, Illinois
Alright that gives me a start. Ive looked around a bit and havnt found jets, where can i get them. Im running boysen reeds and comet 102c but otherwise i think its all stock. And is there anything else i need to do cause id like to keep this thing together for a while this time.


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
Any decent local bike shop will have an assortment of jets. You can also get them on evibay.

What is your elevation you are riding at?

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Mt Vernon, Illinois
Im in southern illinois


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:10 am
Posts: 4678
Location: Carson City NV
What's the elevation?

Rand


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Mt Vernon, Illinois
Around 480 ft


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 Post subject: Re: watercooled head
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:19 am
Posts: 7699
Location: Hope, B.C Canada
eshelton wrote:
Alright that gives me a start. Ive looked around a bit and havnt found jets, where can i get them. Im running boysen reeds and comet 102c but otherwise i think its all stock. And is there anything else i need to do cause id like to keep this thing together for a while this time.


Yes. Counter balancer mod. It is not required but if you don't do it then your starter will fill up with counter balancer oil after a while. Below is a pic and you can see the white bellows and part way down you will see a fuel filter which is used for some expansion. The line is attached to a ford drain plug which replaces the original dip stick or you can screw in a quick disconnect fitting onto a modified dip stick. Your choice. I modified my stock dip stick by cutting off the stick, grinding off the top and screwing in a quick disconnect. The bellows which works well is a differential bellows from a 2007 Can Am 500CC Outlander part number 705400352. The ford part used is 2000 ford f150 radiator drain plug. See pics.


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File comment: This was my first attempt with the ford drain plug. Didn't really like it as it came out once. So drilled and tapped a quick fitting into original dip stick
2000 ford drain plug.jpg
2000 ford drain plug.jpg [ 28.15 KiB | Viewed 3902 times ]
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