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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:54 pm
Posts: 1360
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
then let Ed use the piston in one of his EEE rebuilt engines


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Here is the video, I used two different color markers to mark the pistons and a different mark on each side, I inserted the pin into each side of the bore with the piston held horizontally then turned it vertical and let gravity do its work, you can see in the video this worked on 3 of the 4 bores the last one I can not even shake it out because its so tight in the bore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjomhZqTBp0

Ed at Triple E says this is ok I know its not, if the piston pin bore is not correct or lined up it will make the piston pin walk to one side while the Engine is running, this will put abnormal pressure and wear on the C clip that retains the wrist pin, if run long enough it will push the C clip out and the pin will snag on your cylinder, this usually does not happen soon as you start your Engine, I have seen it happen in engines that have 20-30 hrs use on them, then when it does happen and damages your Engine who pays the bill, you think when you call Ed he is going to accept the blame after all that run time LMAO, if I install I will get the blame, I KNOW BETTER! This problem was well documented in the 70's and 80's .

Now I know that Ed at Triple E would have no problem installing this piston into someones Engine, proof if this was hims shipping it back to me, I had a hunch he would this, this is why I called wiseco and requested sending it back to them, look at Ludedude he hammered a Engine together thought it was ok too, look at the results http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=3402

Why invite problems?

Their must have been some communication gap I guess Ed failed to understand I didnt spend an HOUR boxing up the piston and taking it to the post office paying ELEVEN DOLLARS shipping and for insurance, WAIT A WEEK just for him to give the piston some sort of blessing and SHIP IT BACK, I shipped it back to be REPLACED with a good piston, t I have LOST ALL respect I had for Ed and Triple E, it is doubtful I will be directing people to him in the future! All he had to do was send another piston as discussed on the phone.

The piston with the BLUE marker on it came from Sledpartsguy off ebay, it included the wrist pin (Triple E charges extra for the INCLUDED pin for some reason) and according to Mudbogger Sledpartsguy cost 40 DOLLARS LESS than Triple E.

FYI the price of the piston was not a issue BEFORE this problem with the piston, WE started price shopping for a piston after Triple E FAILED to send us a replacement for the defective piston.

I guess the wiseco curse lives on


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Sooner or later someone will ask so here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNNpT2uuVlw
a video of the the GOOD piston with the pin in both bores at once, a slight shake and it falls through
as it should, I did this 2 different times both times it worked perfect.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Now I have a usable piston I can tinker some more.

Ever wonder how many uses a CD disc has?

They are useful for recording data other than digital....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
AS one opens the other closes


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Huge squish this is without head gasket


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:06 pm
Posts: 1418
Location: San Diego
Nice idea!

Can use some of the daughters CD's for that!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:05 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Oklahoma
maybe some of the Rap CD's - hahah


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Yes Hoser, you are correct on both accounts, Sledpartsguy on Ebay was 40 dollars cheaper and his "piston kit" includes the needle bearing for which I charged $11.57 by Triple EEE(PART # 12-1410) separately.There will be no refund as Ed has stated directly to me via the telephone that the piston is fine.I am amazed at this whole transaction.I did not start to shop for another piston until after I spoke to Sara and Ed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Mudbogger wrote:
Yes Hoser, you are correct on both accounts, Sledpartsguy on Ebay was 40 dollars cheaper and his "piston kit" includes the needle bearing for which I charged $11.57 by Triple EEE(PART # 12-1410) separately.There will be no refund as Ed has stated directly to me via the telephone that the piston is fine.I am amazed at this whole transaction.I did not start to shop for another piston until after I spoke to Sara and Ed.


The needle bearing is NOT part of the piston kit, the wrist pin is, I thought you said wrist pin heh, so being charged for the bearing is normal, Service Honda gets 9.51 for the bearing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
hoser wrote:
Mudbogger wrote:
Yes Hoser, you are correct on both accounts, Sledpartsguy on Ebay was 40 dollars cheaper and his "piston kit" includes the needle bearing for which I charged $11.57 by Triple EEE(PART # 12-1410) separately.There will be no refund as Ed has stated directly to me via the telephone that the piston is fine.I am amazed at this whole transaction.I did not start to shop for another piston until after I spoke to Sara and Ed.


The needle bearing is NOT part of the piston kit, the wrist pin is, I thought you said wrist pin heh, so being charged for the bearing is normal, Service Honda gets 9.51 for the bearing.


Sorry about that Hoser, got lost in the moment there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Their is a hole in your intake manifold.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
I installed the new vent in the cover, I drilled and tapped the hole for 1/8" pipe thread, the case is not that thick in this area so after threading in the fitting I used JB weld on the inside and outside.

The fitting is a compression that uses 1/4" copper tubing, I will look around I should have tubing I will send some with the Engine.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
A reminder that you need to add oil to the balancer before running the Engine.

As always I oiled everything up real good during assembly so its not completely dry, it would be better if you added the oil while the Engine is out then roll it around to distribute the oil then install the Engine.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Great find Hoser thanks again for the work!!
I'll add the oil before installing it-usually do that anyway-you want to keep the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) till I send over new reeds and intake or just ship it back as is ?, doesnt matter to me either way-what did you come out with on the squish after installing the gasket?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Mudbogger wrote:
Great find Hoser thanks again for the work!!
I'll add the oil before installing it-usually do that anyway-you want to keep the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) till I send over new reeds and intake or just ship it back as is ?, doesnt matter to me either way-what did you come out with on the squish after installing the gasket?


If you want I can keep it until the intake and reeds get here I can install if your in no hurry getting the Engine back..

You just changing reed petals or you going with a after market cage?

No replies from the email I sent to wiseco I will have to call them again, I sent you a carbon copy of the email did you get it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 3760
Location: PERTH WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Hoser here's another way of venting, which I had on my ex 350 Ody racer.
Very quick,easy and cheap,with vent tube end filtered and top end drilled n glued into Dipstick top....Baz


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
hoser wrote:
Mudbogger wrote:
Great find Hoser thanks again for the work!!
I'll add the oil before installing it-usually do that anyway-you want to keep the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) till I send over new reeds and intake or just ship it back as is ?, doesnt matter to me either way-what did you come out with on the squish after installing the gasket?


If you want I can keep it until the intake and reeds get here I can install if your in no hurry getting the Engine back..

You just changing reed petals or you going with a after market cage?

No replies from the email I sent to wiseco I will have to call them again, I sent you a carbon copy of the email did you get it?



Yes I did Hoser, thanks got the CC :-)
If you do not mind I would prefer to leave the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) there I'll order a aftermarket reed cage and new intake as well for the motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )), I am in no way in a hurry for this motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )), it is for a spare ride I putting together from tons of parts I have here-I got 4 already that I don't have time to ride!!!!!!
It would be alot easier to know that everything is right on the motor-air leaks etc.Bolt right in is a good thing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Any recommendations for reeds Hoser?
Should I just go with the stock cage and a set of Boyseens, they are pretty cheap, reliable and I can save a buck or 2 on them at RCKY MTN for a 350, Randy also has them, does MARV?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
hoser wrote:
Here is the video, I used two different color markers to mark the pistons and a different mark on each side, I inserted the pin into each side of the bore with the piston held horizontally then turned it vertical and let gravity do its work, you can see in the video this worked on 3 of the 4 bores the last one I can not even shake it out because its so tight in the bore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjomhZqTBp0

Ed at Triple E says this is ok I know its not, if the piston pin bore is not correct or lined up it will make the piston pin walk to one side while the Engine is running, this will put abnormal pressure and wear on the C clip that retains the wrist pin, if run long enough it will push the C clip out and the pin will snag on your cylinder, this usually does not happen soon as you start your Engine, I have seen it happen in engines that have 20-30 hrs use on them, then when it does happen and damages your Engine who pays the bill, you think when you call Ed he is going to accept the blame after all that run time LMAO, if I install I will get the blame, I KNOW BETTER! This problem was well documented in the 70's and 80's .

Now I know that Ed at Triple E would have no problem installing this piston into someones Engine, proof if this was hims shipping it back to me, I had a hunch he would this, this is why I called wiseco and requested sending it back to them, look at Ludedude he hammered a Engine together thought it was ok too, look at the results http://pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=3402

Why invite problems?

Their must have been some communication gap I guess Ed failed to understand I didnt spend an HOUR boxing up the piston and taking it to the post office paying ELEVEN DOLLARS shipping and for insurance, WAIT A WEEK just for him to give the piston some sort of blessing and SHIP IT BACK, I shipped it back to be REPLACED with a good piston, t I have LOST ALL respect I had for Ed and Triple E, it is doubtful I will be directing people to him in the future! All he had to do was send another piston as discussed on the phone.

The piston with the BLUE marker on it came from Sledpartsguy off ebay, it included the wrist pin (Triple E charges extra for the INCLUDED pin for some reason) and according to Mudbogger Sledpartsguy cost 40 DOLLARS LESS than Triple E.

FYI the price of the piston was not a issue BEFORE this problem with the piston, WE started price shopping for a piston after Triple E FAILED to send us a replacement for the defective piston.


Here is THREE more wisecos I found in the shop, one is for a ATC250R and the other two are for a ROTAX 440.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rX5btp-31I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f871SzwRyEQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9A_Ddn1dHA

If these all were like the one from Triple E then ole ED might stand a chance of convincing me the one HE SENT BACK to me was good, nice try ED.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
bugeye59 wrote:
Hoser here's another way of venting, which I had on my ex 350 Ody racer.
Very quick,easy and cheap,with vent tube end filtered and top end drilled n glued into Dipstick top....Baz


I like that, I had thought about doing that also, my major concern was the tube coming out of the cap I was thinking of melting something into the plastic but since its not my Engine I decided to go with drilling the side cover.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
Hosers-reeds and intake are on there way-bought the reeds from Dennis Kirk-part # 18-330 Boyesens and the intake with hardware from Service Honda-expect with the holidays about 7 days till they arrive.I am going to ship the head from Hares old motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) to you for a CSI as well this wed-ok?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Just so Ed from Triple E or anybody else wants to FACT CHECK ME this was taken from Page 152 and 153 two stroke performance tuning by A Graham Bell or you can just use some simple common sense.

Before the piston is fitted, there are several clearance checks to be made. The first of these is the fit of the piston pin. It should be an easy slide fit, slipping through the piston under its own weight. A tight pin is to be avoided as this will overload the sides of the piston when the Engine is running. At high Engine speeds the crankshaft tends to whip and, if the pin is tight, this load will be transferred to the side of the piston, possibly distorting it and causing seizure.
A tight pin may also change the expansion characteristics of the piston and cause scuffing or seizure on the piston thrust faces. When the piston is unable to expand correctly along the pin axis it will expand at 90° to the pin and force the thrust faces of the piston hard against the cylinder wall.


Ed from Triple E you can suck it! you would not make a pimple on a mechanics ass maybe if you were not just a tool for Wisecos return policy and had some balls to stand up to Wiseco and were not worried about your relationship with Wiseco you would not look like incompetent mechanic that you are, Thanks Ed at triple E for providing the FACTS about your Engine building skills.

I guess the wiseco curse lives on


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
two stroke performance tuning by A Graham Bell


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm
Posts: 5559
Location: New Jersey
I swear that Ed stated to me over the phone that the piston we sent back to him was "perfectly acceptable" for use and "he would use it in any of his rebuilds" makes me think how I have been so lucky not to have had any motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) failures from them over the years-
I also just had an issue with a Power Pros exhaust I purchased from them as well, it was mispackaged and really sent my for a loop when trying to use it-I documented it in the "upgrades to a 350" thread here.


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