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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
I received your top end today, I only had time to unpack it and give it a quick look, perfect packing BTW the package arrived undamaged.

The first thing I noticed was their is carbon trails by each head stud this is usually a indication that the head was over torqued, when over torqued it will actually distort the cylinder the metal by the studs is actually moved and the cylinder is no longer round so the rings wont seal properly and you get blow by by each stud as seen in the pics.

Was killer busy after work tonight so I didnt get any further I will look closer and take some measurements, I also need to clean the carbon off the cylinder wall and lightly hone the cylinder to see if the metal by the studs has relaxed back to where it was before, I had the same thing on my ATC300R big bore kit http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=5403 the did go back to normal.

These pictures suck I will try to get better pics in the sun light.

The head is interesting if I am not mistaken its a liewire head, strange design as with most his stuff.


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 Post subject: FL350R top end
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Hello Hoser, man you are fast. Is there a better head that I should be using.
Thank you for all your time, Steve.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:41 pm 
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Location: New Jersey
I would love to see the CSI of the 'great ones" heads -LOL
:shock:


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Ok took a second look tonight, actually I put your cylinder in my hone tank, I use a Sunnen AN-112 hone with stones made for 2 cycle engines or cylinders with holes in them, this hone will show you things a ball hone cover up, a ridged stone hone will only remove material from a high spot it will not dip into a low spot like a ball hone does.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Location: Chicago
I did a lite hone not much material is removed only enough to show how straight the bore is, no real measurable amount of material is removed.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Back in the tank again this time I will remove more material as many call 'break the glaze', you can still see spots at the top of the bore where the rings wore the bore.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Back into the hone tank for a 3rd time this time I removed even more material, how much? I don't know I didnt bother to measure no use wasting my time measuring when the bore is still in a condition you could not use it.

Now the bore is almost even.


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Location: Chicago
The ring end gap was huge I quit measuring with a feeler gauge when I got to .050


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:35 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Cant see it well in the pics but the crown of the piston has a dimple spot on it, the piston crown actually got hot enough it started to sag.


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File comment: Cleaned up you still cant see it well in the picture.

.

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File comment: The sag spot on the crown perfectly matches the blister spot seen on the bottom side of the piston.

This piston looked DEATH straight in the face and rejected it lol how lucky can you get.

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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:36 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Piston to cylinder clearance using the quick and dirty method was .007

http://www.pilotodyssey.com/PO/viewtopic.php?t=3115

The cylinder will need bored so a 81.5mm piston will be needed.


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 Post subject: FL350R cylinder
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Hello Hoser, first of all I want to thank you. I work all the time with very little free time, I get the feeling that you are a very busy person as well, though you have only had my cylinder a couple of days you are already taking care of it. Thank You Thank You!!!!!!!!

I saw the dimple in the piston, thought that was a problem.
What do you think about the head?

If possible could you also do a mild port job on it, it has a keihin 38 or 39mm flat slide carb and a dg exhaust.
I want it to run strong but still be dependable.

Can I buy the piston from you???

Do you need me to send you some money???

Again Thank you for all your time.


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 Post subject: Re: FL350R cylinder
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
scpilot66 wrote:
Hello Hoser, first of all I want to thank you. I work all the time with very little free time, I get the feeling that you are a very busy person as well, though you have only had my cylinder a couple of days you are already taking care of it. Thank Thank You!!!!!!!!

I saw the dimple in the piston, thought that was a problem.
What do you think about the head?

If possible could you also do a mild port job on it, it has a keihin 38 or 39mm flat slide carb and a dg exhaust.
I want it to run strong but still be dependable.

Can I buy the piston from you???

Do you need me to send you some money???

Again Thank you for all your time.


I don't sell or supply parts this allows you to shop and find the best deal, I am not sure who currently has the best prices on the wiseco kits wiseco had a huge price increase on their products so everybody has been raising their prices, I know sledpartsguy on ebay use to be cheapest then I think it was rockymountainatv maybe others can chime in here.

It looks like its already been ported I will look closer at this and I will look closer at the head too, I would replace all the Orings on the head as they show signs of wear .


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 Post subject: FL350R cylinder
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Good morning Hoser, on the o-rings for the head do you mean the o-rings for the head studs?
I will find an 81.5mm Wiseco piston kit and send it to you.

Thank you and have a great day.......


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 Post subject: piston kit
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Searching for an 81.5mm Wiseco piston kit for the 85 FL350R.

The best price I have found so far is $172.26 from piston dealer.com, Denis Kirk http://denniskirk.com will match the lowest price I can find and give free shipping.

Does anyone know of a cheaper place, Rocky Mountain http://rockymountainatv.com atv does not have the size I need, the guy on ebay wants $177.97 + shipping.

Thanks for any help.


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 Post subject: Re: piston kit
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
scpilot66 wrote:
Searching for an 81.5mm Wiseco piston kit for the 85 FL350R.

The best price I have found so far is $172.26 from piston dealer.com, Denis Kirk http://denniskirk.com will match the lowest price I can find and give free shipping.

Does anyone know of a cheaper place, Rocky Mountain http://rockymountainatv.com atv does not have the size I need, the guy on ebay wants $177.97 + shipping.

Thanks for any help.


Holy COW!!!

2 years ago the normal price on one of their kits was 100 bux.

Keep searching their has to be someone cheaper, start calling shops like service honda , hillside honda, honda of troy etc.


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 Post subject: piston kit
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:27 pm 
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Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
Ok getting a little cheaper, service honda wants $157.57 + shipping, the cheapest so far is pat's small Engine plus $154.95 + shipping. Denis Kirk http://denniskirk.com will match the $154.95 and ship for free.


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 Post subject: Re: piston kit
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
scpilot66 wrote:
Ok getting a little cheaper, service honda wants $157.57 + shipping, the cheapest so far is pat's small Engine plus $154.95 + shipping. Denis Kirk http://denniskirk.com will match the $154.95 and ship for free.


Think service honda has a $9.00 min on shipping so figure that in looks liek Denis Kirk http://denniskirk.com is the winner so far...


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 Post subject: piston kit
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:45 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Cedar Crest New Mexico
MFG supply.com $149.99 + shipping


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 Post subject: Re: FL350R cylinder
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
scpilot66 wrote:
Good morning Hoser, on the o-rings for the head do you mean the o-rings for the head studs?
I will find an 81.5mm Wiseco piston kit and send it to you.

Thank you and have a great day.......


All the Orings need replaced, I never liked this head design I question it after seeing two 'prototypes' he sent a good friend of mine, my buddy Don called me one day and said "I have two water cooled heads for a FL350 you need to come see them" I don't see any difference in this head over the prototypes I looked at, I don't agree at all with the methods used to hold the HOT coolant inside the water jacket, the way the o rings are used goes against all my formal training on o rings I ever had I also have never seen o rings used in any application like they are used here, the O rings are compressed against a threaded stud and are suppose to seal, if you look at the bottom of the head o rings are also expected to seal against a incomplete pocket.

The spark plug sets into a pocket not good for off road it always traps dirt special care must be used before the spark plug is removed each time, compressed air should be used to ensure all loose dirt is out of the cavity before the plug is removed.

Another O ring should have been used on top of the dome to keep dirt that falls into the pocket where the spark plug is from getting to the o ring that seals the top of the dome.

The top of the dome has only one o ring pro design and other mfg's use two o rings in this area.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:25 am 
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Location: Chicago
Dirt that's below the spark plug between the top of the dome and the outer shell, worked its way to the o ring and was damaging it, I would use high temp silicone in this area after it was assembled to keep crap away from the o ring.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:26 am 
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Location: Chicago
Dirt ground into the o ring, o ring distorted like it was affected by heat or the groove clearance is not correct.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:28 am 
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Location: Chicago
O ring groove


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:29 am 
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O ring is suppose to seal here


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:31 am 
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Location: Chicago
Years ago when this head was discussed all this was brought up I was accused of being the bad guy for questioning the design and was told none are leaking, I stand by my original findings and opinions about this head like most other things Liewire has design and sold its a real strange half ass design.


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:34 am 
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Location: Chicago
Ever time I look at this picture it makes me wonder, was the head over torqued during the assembly or did someone throw extra torque on the studs because they seen coolant weeping around an area that the o rings are suppose to seal, its human nature when someone sees something leaking to try to tighten it up.

At the very least ALL the o rings need replaced.


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