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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
FatCat dropped off his stock FL350 Engine the other day and a really cool liquid cooled top end, someone welded on a water jacket to the cylinder then used a Rands head, really cool.

Plan was to have me swap the top ends for him.

When he dropped it off he said he had a problem with it running lean last time he was riding, automatically "pressure test" comes to mind....

When he dropped it off it was caked up with years of dirt and grease so I sealed it up and washed the Engine to get the first layers of shit off before removing the top end.

After it was somewhat clean I added air, pump it to 10 psi and it almost instantly drops to 5 psi then to 0 psi in about 15 seconds, huge leak, I stick the vent tube from the balancer mod he did up to my ear can feel air coming out, not good, remove the balancer side cover sure enough the balancer side crank case seal is leaking.

A air leak or a leaking seal is a big thing if not fixed or noticed it can cost you hundreds of dollars, what happens is your sucking extra air into the Engine threw another passage and not the carb if the air is not flowing through the carb its not picking up the required amount of gas and this creates a lean condition then you end up melting your piston, if all you need is a new piston kit and gaskets and you can simply hone the cylinder your still looking at 200.00 min. not including the down time you suffered.

You don't have to pull the Engine to do the pressure test as seen in these pictures but you will need to pull the exhaust and at least the carb off the intake and unhook the pulse line to the fuel pump.

Its a pain but its not hard to do well worth the time you invest if you have a bad seal and suck dirt and air it can cost you hundreds of dollars if you discover this later on.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Pulled the right side cover off so I could inspect the mag side crank seal also.

See all the oil assume this was from the balancer case here read this http://pilotodyssey.com/350sb.htm" ."..


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Next I want to pull the flywheel but wait a minute thought you used the same puller you use on a FL250?
WTF no threads! Mudbogger's was threaded they only thread some of them?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3596

Further review MasOdyssey's don't look like it was threaded NEVER use a puller like he used and pull from the outside of the flywheel!!!!!! http://www.pilotodyssey.com/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=10

Now I gotta make a puller or modify one to remove it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Location: Chicago
Plenty of threaded holes for me to bolt a home made puller to and remove the flywheel


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Parts list so far.

All 3 crank seals.
Balancer cover gasket.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
I apologize for the dirty Engine. I should have cleaned it up before I dropped it off. The vent mod was done by the previous owner. Was it done incorrectly? Is the flywheel damaged? I found one NOS seal, I'll try to find the others tonight. Thanks again for helping me out with this.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:15 am 
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Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Cylinder and head removed, no big surprises here typical stock cylinder and head.


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You can see carbon stains on the cylinder wall where the ring end gaps are.

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A light haze of rust on the cylinder wall, what oil are you using?

You might consider pulling the choke after your done riding and let the Engine idle a while to give it a extra shot of oil to coat the internals when your not going to be using it for a day or longer
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Only markings on the piston are the "IN" a quick measure of the piston shows its 78.21mm piston is well worn.
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Exhaust manifold does not match the cylinder casting.
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First thing I do on all cylinders is put PB Blaster on all the studs get them soaking
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Reed petals has been changed sometime in the past
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Here is the liquid cooled setup that will be installed.

I will post more detail pics of this combination when I inspect it and before installing.


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File comment: Cylinder and head

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File comment: Here is the used piston that came with the cylinder/head combo, regardless of the wear on this piston and rings (not very much) they will be reused until the jetting is established and the cooling system tested and proven

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File comment: 4 lube/cooling holes drilled on the exhaust side of the piston, more is better?

Note the 3 dimples drilled on the skirt I assume these are to also hold more lube

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:44 am 
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Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
More info on the Piston Texture thing http://www.pilotodyssey.com/pistontech.htm


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:50 am 
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Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Here is the FMF reed cage that will be used, its needs a little work.


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File comment: Like most these FMF cages their stuffers suffered problems with warping I will fix this

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
I'm using Klotz techniplate for oil. It was running very lean the last time it ran. That may be why the rust is there. I'll definately start choking it before I park it. That's a good tip.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
I also have a starter motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) rebuild kit on the shelf. After reading more about the balancer oil problem I think it may be bad. It would start first or second pull but I'd have to crank the it over for 30+ seconds with the starter. What do you think?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:40 pm
Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Fatcat wrote:
I also have a starter motor (( Internal Combustion Engine ? )) ((Internal Combustion Engine?)) rebuild kit on the shelf. After reading more about the balancer oil problem I think it may be bad. It would start first or second pull but I'd have to crank the it over for 30+ seconds with the starter. What do you think?



The starter is on the bench wont take much to open it up for inspection, its a real pain to do it once the Engine is installed, I propped the starter up so any oil could run out after I removed it just to see what came out, nothing yet.

350 Starter Rebuild Central viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5939


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
It would be great if you could take a look at it. I've got the same kit as dshelgren had. Its made in china. I'll drop it off when I get more parts or whenever you like.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Posts: 2243
I have never seen threads there on any of my 350 endevours???? Must have been a custom job.

I like the liq head/cylinder setup. I have seen a few pictures of that type but never been up close n personal with one. :-) Better than just a liq head, which is miles above air cooling. Hows the port work?

Gary


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
Nuke Em wrote:
I have never seen threads there on any of my 350 endevours???? Must have been a custom job.

I like the liq head/cylinder setup. I have seen a few pictures of that type but never been up close n personal with one. :-) Better than just a liq head, which is miles above air cooling. Hows the port work?

Gary


That's strange. I just got my FL350 flywheel puller in the mail and it's meant to thread in. Apparently it's the wrong puller. http://bit.ly/HS0YDw

And thanks on the liquid cooled setup. It's definately had some port work but to what level I cant tell you. Maybe Hoser can tell you more. I'm still pretty green on the subject.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
Fatcat wrote:
Nuke Em wrote:
I have never seen threads there on any of my 350 endevours???? Must have been a custom job.

I like the liq head/cylinder setup. I have seen a few pictures of that type but never been up close n personal with one. :-) Better than just a liq head, which is miles above air cooling. Hows the port work?

Gary


That's strange. I just got my FL350 flywheel puller in the mail and it's meant to thread in. Apparently it's the wrong puller. http://bit.ly/HS0YDw" ."..

And thanks on the liquid cooled setup. It's definately had some port work but to what level I cant tell you. Maybe Hoser can tell you more. I'm still pretty green on the subject.



that's the right puller I used the same one on Mudbogger's 350 viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3596 they must have had different batches of flywheels some were threaded some were not ?

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:40 pm 
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Location: St. John, Washington
The flywheels that i have used on my 350s have been threaded. wonder if some of the unthreaded ones were from a pre-recall Engine?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
nitrosport_5 wrote:
The flywheels that i have used on my 350s have been threaded. wonder if some of the unthreaded ones were from a pre-recall Engine?


That Engine came off a post-recall buggy. There's no X at the end of the VIN. My other Ody has the X at the end of the vin. I'll post what I find on that Engine at rebuild time.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:33 am 
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Posts: 421
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Nuke Em wrote:
I have never seen threads there on any of my 350 endevours???? Must have been a custom job.

I like the liq head/cylinder setup. I have seen a few pictures of that type but never been up close n personal with one. :-) Better than just a liq head, which is miles above air cooling. Hows the port work?

Gary

I've never seen one threaded like that either, i've always used a harmonic puller & 3 bolts to pull my fly wheels.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:52 am 
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Posts: 22512
Location: Chicago
elitespecialkid wrote:
Nuke Em wrote:
I have never seen threads there on any of my 350 endevours???? Must have been a custom job.

I like the liq head/cylinder setup. I have seen a few pictures of that type but never been up close n personal with one. :-) Better than just a liq head, which is miles above air cooling. Hows the port work?

Gary

I've never seen one threaded like that either, i've always used a harmonic puller & 3 bolts to pull my fly wheels.



Are you guys looking close, the threads are very fine and shallow a lite layer of dirt will hide them you wont see them unless your specifically looking for the threads in the right place.

A dimly lit work area and a little dirt you will never see them.

If you look in the factory service manual the printed one not the POS copy from the web with the black pictures you can clearly see the puller in the flywheel then the next picture is the flywheel off showing you the bolts you remove to remove the starter gear :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am
Posts: 2010
Location: Ottawa, IL
hoser wrote:
Parts list so far.

All 3 crank seals.
Balancer cover gasket.


All three seals have been bought and should be in the mail and I have the gasket already.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:19 am 
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Posts: 3294
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
hoser wrote:
Here is the liquid cooled setup that will be installed.

I will post more detail pics of this combination when I inspect it and before installing.


I remember a few years ago Randy at odysalvage said he puts dimples in the piston at those same locations. Previous owner know Randy??


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:31 pm 
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I had to scratch my head one time looking for the threads, then I cleaned off the dirt film


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Didnt know that bout the washing of the flywheel. That applies to the pilot also I assume?


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